EP 19 Dr. Laurel Martin - Junior Achievement of the Bluegrass

PODCAST EPISODE 19

Dr. Laurel Martin
President
Junior Achievement

Quote of the Podcast – 

   “Believe in your heart that you are meant to live a life full of passion, purpose, magic, and miracles.”

Introduction of Guest BIO – 

Laurel Raimondo Martin serves as the President of Junior Achievement and has been in that role since 2020.  She has worked in the higher education and non-profit sector for 29 years. Prior to joining Junior Achievement, she served as the Associate Vice President for Advancement at Bluegrass Community and Technical College and as Executive Director of the BCTC Foundation in Lexington, Kentucky.  Laurel earned her BS in Home Economics from the University of Kentucky, her MEd in Counselor Education from the University of Iowa and her PhD in Leadership, Organization, and Policy from Vanderbilt University.  Laurel also has ten years of experience as an adjunct professor, having taught graduate and undergraduate courses on Organizational Leadership, Business & Organizational Communication, Strategic Planning for Managers, Organizational Management, Group & Organizational Behavior, and Organizational Ethics.  Laurel is a past president of the Lexington Children’s Theatre and the Junior League of Lexington, she is a past chair of the Junior League Horse Show, and is currently a member of the Bluegrass Tomorrow Board of Directors, Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence, and was appointed to the Kentucky Financial Empowerment Commission.

Interview

Agents of Change: Leaders/Innovators

• 30,000 ft. view – Why do we, as a society invest in education?
• What drew you to education?
• What do you love about what you do?

·       The power of education to change lives for the individual, their families, and the larger community. 

·       The importance of challenging ourselves to try things that seem scary, or hard or we may not succeed in the same way we challenge our students.

·       Managing organizational culture in education.

• Tell us a story or favorite memory about your work in education.
• What are the biggest challenges or obstacles you face?
• What would you like decision-makers to know?

Podcast/book shoutouts

o   Courage Goes to Work by Bill Treasurer 

o   Reframing Organizations by Lee Bowman and Terry Deal

o   Educated: A Memoir by Tara Westover

Education Perspectives is edited by Shashank P athttps://www.fiverr.com/saiinovation?source=inbox

Intro and Outro by Dynamix Productions

Transcript

Liza Holland [00:00:02]:

Welcome to education perspectives. I am your host, Liza Holland. This is a podcast that explores the role of education in our society from a variety of lenses. Education needs to evolve to meet the needs of today and the future. Solving such huge issues requires understanding. Join me as we begin to explore the many perspectives of education. Laurel Romando Martin serves as the President of Junior Achievement and has been in that role since 2020. She has worked in the higher education and nonprofit sector for 29 years.

Liza Holland [00:00:39]:

Prior to joining Junior Achievement, she served as the Associate Vice President for advancement at Bluegrass Community and Technical College and executive Director of the BCTC Foundation in Lexington, Kentucky. Laurel earned her BS in Home economics from the University of Kentucky, her Med. In counselor education from the University of Iowa, and her PhD. In leadership, organization and policy from Vanderbilt University. Laurel also has ten years experience as an adjunct professor, having taught graduate and undergraduate courses on Organizational Leadership, business and Organizational communication, strategic planning for managers, organizational management, group and Organizational Behavior, and Organizational Ethics. Laurel is the past president of the Lexington Children's Theater and the Junior League of Lexington. She is also the past chair of the Junior League Horse Show and is currently a member of the Bluegrass Tomorrow Board of Directors, the Pritchard Committee for Academic Excellence, and was appointed to the Kentucky Financial Empowerment Commission. Well, welcome Laurel to education perspective.

Liza Holland [00:01:47]:

So very glad to have you here.

Laurel Martin [00:01:48]:

Thank you so much. I'm delighted.

Liza Holland [00:01:51]:

I don't know how I might have missed this, but after reading your intro before this, I'm like, Dr. Martin, exciting. I didn't realize that you've gotten your PhD.

Laurel Martin [00:02:02]:

And, you know, I never grow tired of hearing, congratulations, you got your doctorate. So it is an undertaking, but it is so rewarding, and it's always fun when people don't realize that because it's just fun. So thank you.

Liza Holland [00:02:18]:

Well, my husband happens to be a DVM PhD, and so I can totally relate, and I have all kinds of respect for what you went through to have it happen.

Laurel Martin [00:02:27]:

Thank you. Thank you.

Liza Holland [00:02:29]:

You bet. Well, let's kick us off on this 30,000 foot view. Why, in your opinion, do we as a society invest in education?

Laurel Martin [00:02:39]:

I think from the very beginning of our country, there was a real understanding that an educated citizenship was what was required to make everything run as smoothly as possible for us to reach our full potential. And so from a systems perspective or a community perspective, having a well educated citizenship has always been a tenet of who we are as a country. But I think as you start to work in education, you're really looking at the individual. And I just think, like so many of your guests have stressed, that education changes lives. And it not only changes the lives of the life of the person being educated, but it changes their family's life. And as you start to expand that out. It changes neighborhoods, communities, organizations. I think that education makes everything better and allows it to move towards its full potential.

Liza Holland [00:03:38]:

Great answer. So tell me, you have done a lot of really interesting types of things, some of it directly in education and others kind of more tangential. Can you tell me a little bit about your journey in education, kind of what brought you to the junior achievement?

Laurel Martin [00:03:56]:

Sure. One of the things I was thinking about as I was getting ready for this is this idea that I really envy people who from a young age know exactly what they want to be when they grow up. I mean, you hear stories about doctors who played with little medical kits as children, or you meet people who wanted to be a police officer from the time they were five years old and had an outfit. I'm really envious of people like that. But my education and career path has really been pretty serendipitous and throughout education, elementary school, as I moved into middle high school, college, the extracurricular things were really I liked going to school because I got to do those other things as much as I liked what I did in the classroom. And a lot of the things I was involved with were academically based speech teams, other things like service organizations, things like that. I had to kind of find my way back into the classroom in many ways. So as an undergrad, I struggled.

Laurel Martin [00:04:56]:

I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do, but again, my extracurricular really provided my pathway and I was an RA. And I worked on a college campus and I realized that you could work on a college campus as a full time professional. They would help you get a master's degree. And so as I moved through higher education, I became a better and better student. But I also found this pathway where I could help others who were coming into whatever academic place that I was working and help them figure out how to navigate that space and do well. And so I started out working in student affairs and higher education, and I really loved working with students and their families, but at some point had the chance to move over to alumni and development work. And so that's a space that I've spent most of my career really. But that's where I started to connect different organizations in the community companies, nonprofits, individuals, foundations back to the work on our campuses and folks who really were committed to educating that next generation of leaders.

Laurel Martin [00:06:04]:

Again, this concept that investing in people allows them to have an educational experience that changes their life, their family's life, and the communities that they move into as they move through life. So that was really great. As I moved into higher education, I moved from research institutions to the community college space. And I was fascinated by the work readiness, work that is being done there. And this idea that within communities, our employers figure out what's needed and educational institutions figure out how to provide that skill and experience and pathway so folks can move into those roles. And again, to be employed, to pay your bills, to take care of your family, to do the things you want to do. I just think that's what all of us, aspire we all want to be able to do those things and so really enjoyed moving into that community college space and the work we were doing as a community to help make sure the pipeline that we need is there. And people have the ability to go to school in a place that works with them and all the other responsibilities they have in their life.

Laurel Martin [00:07:10]:

So Junior Achievement came about because the woman who had led this organization for 20 plus years, who had really grown it, was retiring. And we had a conversation and she invited me to consider applying. And I think the thing that really struck me is that we always talk about wishing we could create educational opportunities for students younger, earlier, and this was an opportunity to do that around financial literacy, work readiness, and entrepreneurship. And so this allowed me to move from that higher ed space into what at that time was really outreach work into a full time opportunity to look at K through twelve education in those really important topic areas. And so it's been a really fun journey and I feel like it really has allowed me to wrap everything I've done through the years into a neat little package. Here we are.

Liza Holland [00:08:03]:

Tell us a little bit for those who may not know about what Junior Achievement does offer.

Laurel Martin [00:08:09]:

So, Junior Achievement started over 100 years ago by the president of at and T and a gentleman who was the president of a company called Swathmore Paper. And they started the company to provide what at the time was after school programs around the same topic areas we're still committed to today financial literacy, work readiness, entrepreneurship. And I think they really felt like not only did they want to give young people the autonomy to manage their finances and to be self sufficient, but also to create that workforce that they knew they needed in their company. And so through the years, we have migrated as a company from after school programs to in class programming. Those programs are designed at the national level by educators. They align with core standards. So when we offer those programs to educators, it's not extra, it's part of what students at any particular grade level are supposed to be exploring and learning and mastering. And we do it in a really unique way that I think, again, ties back to some of my past experiences.

Laurel Martin [00:09:13]:

We offer that programming at little or no cost to our educators and our students because those programs are underwritten by the companies that want to invest in the future workforce. And so it's a really neat partnership between generous donors, educators and our office to help facilitate that. And one of the key things that our office does is we provide volunteers that can deliver the curriculum. So when a volunteer signs up to do it, it's turnkey. What we've also come to really appreciate is that when a caring adult spends time with young people and shares their experiences and their time, there's some really powerful relationships built. And you can talk to folks who had Ja 30 plus years ago and they may not remember everything but they remember that it impacted their life. They remember that an adult came into their classroom and shared their story and for some of them it's a real they remember their name. It's always a treat when I can have folks that come into the building who can tell me about those childhood experiences with Ja and what the difference it made for them.

Laurel Martin [00:10:20]:

And for some of them they will describe it as life changing. They got to go somewhere for a competition, they got to leave the state and they didn't know that they were ever going to do that. They got a scholarship and they went to college and the person in their family to do it. And I think even for our young people, if you've got that entrepreneurial just vein, some people just seem to be wired that way. This is a really great way to tie academics to that sort of interest and foster it and help students understand that they can start their own companies, they can find a need and fill it and make a living doing that. It's a really exciting thing. There are a lot of AHA moments as people move through Ja classwork and it's just really fun to see know.

Liza Holland [00:11:02]:

I really view Ja as a model for what we really need to change in education because that introduction of the real world to our younger students is so incredibly important and our educators don't know what they don't know. They don't know about the jobs that are available out there, they don't know about what is being asked of these people once they're in the business world and whatnot. And so bringing that real world opportunity to them I think is just brilliant. And so I'm a little bit of a super fan.

Laurel Martin [00:11:42]:

Thank you. I love it. Well the other thing I think the model of education, it's all based on a workshop model. It's very interactive, it's very hands on, it's very experiential and we just know that that's a better way to learn. And so when a student we have a space in our facility where students come in after 12 hours of classroom instruction and they get to run a city with 16 storefronts. And so when a student gets to come in and be the president of a bank or the CEO of a hospital or a bank teller. It changes how they view themselves. And coming to work for the first day can be stressful for anyone.

Laurel Martin [00:12:18]:

But they get to come to work, they get to do that in a safe space and they get to be successful. And for some students, we hear them say, I'm going to be a bank teller. I understand what the work is and now I'm going to be a bank teller. And I just think it's great for us, as you said, to expose students to possibilities they didn't know existed and give them a chance to have success in that space. Because role modeling things and visioning yourself as being one of those in a position like that is a really powerful thing to have happen to you.

Liza Holland [00:12:49]:

It absolutely is. And it completely aligns with the movement towards deeper learning experiences.

Laurel Martin [00:12:57]:

Absolutely.

Liza Holland [00:12:58]:

And we want to spread that type of an experience across the curriculum so that there are pieces of that happening in every classroom that children are and young students are exposed to because we're now preparing them for jobs that don't even exist yet. So it's not about the content anymore. It's about the process and it's about that critical thinking and all those types of things. And so I just think Ja is exactly the type of experience that we need to be spreading throughout our entire educational system. That's so cool. So enough about what I think. What do you think? What is your favorite thing about what you do?

Laurel Martin [00:13:45]:

I do think it's watching the students. I have a spot that I stand when I open the door. I hold the door open when our students come for their simulation in our space because as they round the corner and they see this city for the first time, that they get to run. As they see a storefront that looks like Fork Bank and they know that they're the president of Fork Bank today, as they round the corner and they know they're the DJ and they can see the radio station, it is pure joy and excitement on their faces. I think that, again, education should excite us, it should challenge us, and these experiences do that for our students. And so I really appreciate that. I also appreciate that. I think it provides students with an opportunity to go home and have conversations with their families that might not otherwise happen.

Laurel Martin [00:14:32]:

So Junior Achievement works really hard to have what we call take home items so that it guides parents on how to ask their students what they experienced at school that day. I think there's just a real powerful opportunity for engagement with parents. They get to really talk about it. And we have students that will go through some of our financial literacy or work readiness programs and they'll say, can't believe my parents do this at work every day and then come home and cook dinner and smile. And I think if a student can come home and say that to a mom or dad. That's a really special moment with a child. When I first interviewed for this job, one of the things that I think really hooked me and I just thought, if I could be a part of this, I really want to be was. They told a story about a student that had gone through a financial literacy program and gone home to her mom and was talking about it and asked her mom, after learning how to build a budget, what their budget looked like.

Laurel Martin [00:15:27]:

And the mom confessed that they didn't really have a budget. And so the mom and the daughter proceeded to make a budget together. And I think that is powerful on so many levels. I mean, a compliment to that mom who set the stage for that conversation was open to talking about the fact that that wasn't something she had but was willing to allow her daughter to lead that conversation and help create that. I have to think down the line if the child wanted something and the mom said, you know, it's not really in the budget, the child would understand that. So I just think it's a really powerful way to reinforce what students are learning when they can take it home and talk with parents. But again, I think it's another example of how education changes our lives, but it changes family lives and we can learn so much from children. And I think in that case, that mom clearly learned something from her daughter and was probably incredibly proud of her too.

Liza Holland [00:16:21]:

I would agree. And that's the other piece of the puzzle for education right now is to build lifelong learners and so that sharing with the parents. You never know how life changing that particular story could have been, oh my gosh, now I know how to budget. Maybe I'm kind of interested in getting involved in this and I could think of a new career path. You never know.

Laurel Martin [00:16:47]:

I think our parents give us the gifts that they were given. So if her parent had a budget, she just didn't have the opportunity to create one. She may not have known how to create one. It may have been something that sounded like a smart thing to do, but she hadn't gotten around to it. And so I do think that, again, this idea of changing families, changing individuals lives, but changing families lives if we inherit what our parents had, the change comes when something new is introduced and can be shared with one another around that kitchen table, around holiday conversations, while we're on vacation, while we're together for a family event. And so I think that can be really important.

Liza Holland [00:17:31]:

Know, I spent a lot of time in PTA and I have to give a shout out to your mom because she was such a visionary in the parent and family engagement space. But what I found so often was that parents and community wanted to help schools, and schools wanted help, but they really didn't know what to do with them. Hence, like, can you put up a bulletin board as opposed to these meaningful experiences like what Ja is offering? And obviously you have 100 years of experience in being able to develop this infrastructure and whatnot. But if business people are interested in helping and getting more involved with schools and what kind of advice maybe would you give them? Obviously, Ja is a perfect entree, but what kind of attitude do you think business people have to bring into a classroom type of a situation to be a part of the solution for our students?

Laurel Martin [00:18:35]:

I think you tapped on it exactly. And our philosophy, our programs are designed by educators, but at the end of the day, every educator is going to know what's best in their classroom. Every principal is going to know what's best in their school. Every superintendent knows what they're trying to do in that district and what they're trying to accomplish. So I think our role is to be solution providers. And so with any opportunity, I think it's trying to understand what it is they're looking for, what would be a solution, what would be a nice addition to what they're already offering, and how can we work together to do that? And we have set programs. We also have the ability to pull modules or lessons out and create something that really provides, again, a solution to something they're needing as they're trying to grow and expand what they're offering their students. So I think that's understanding that they are the experts, but it takes a community to figure out how to make those experiences dynamic and memorable and exciting.

Laurel Martin [00:19:36]:

And as you referenced earlier, deeper learning really part of what a 21st century education might look like. And so we always start with how can we help? What are you trying to accomplish? Where are your pain points? We have curriculum we can offer you. We can show you how it aligns with core standards so you understand exactly what you're trying to add and where you're adding it. And so I think for all of us, asking how to help or learning more about what they're trying to do and how to move forward with them is really a key to that.

Liza Holland [00:20:07]:

I respect that a lot, and I'm saddened by some of the public dialogue around teachers and that sort of thing. And we don't stop to think that these people have gone to school for years to learn how to teach. What we can do as a society is not tell them how to do what they do, but maybe give them some additional things to break down and to teach. I mean, give them some real world examples to be able to implement in their classroom. Because, yeah, teachers don't know what they don't know. But on the flip side, they are the experts in the how do we teach it? Sort of piece.

Laurel Martin [00:20:50]:

Absolutely. And they have that larger picture. They have planned the year, so they know exactly what's being covered and they know where there's an opportunity to add. So, yeah, you're exactly. We are in their space. We feel like we are guests in their space, and we're delighted to be in that place. The other thing I will tell you is that Ja, for all of our history, has worked with community leaders, trained them to be volunteers in that space. But one of the things that has struck me and I think about my mom a lot in this role is that Ja provides a very structured, concrete way for parents to be engaged in schools if they want to go in and help.

Laurel Martin [00:21:27]:

So there's lots of ways to be involved in a school, but teaching Ja, whether it's in your students class or another grade level, because you like the teacher, you like the material, it's another way for parents to be engaged and really get a sense of what it's like to be in that school in a way that I think is healthy for them and the student.

Liza Holland [00:21:45]:

I especially encourage parents to broaden their outlook when it gets to middle and high school because they don't really want you in the classroom once they get to that age. But you have that opportunity to be able to, A, share your knowledge, and B, be in the school and be able to kind of get a feeling and have items to talk about with your child at the dinner table and that sort of thing. So I appreciate you bringing that forward. One of the things that we had talked about a little bit in our prep work here was talking about challenges for kids and that it's okay to try something that's new and that's a little scary and that it's even okay to fail because you dust yourself off, you move forward in this. Like, you got to get an A culture. I think we need to be bringing more of that in. And you had a tremendous challenge that you pursued this summer. So can you share a little bit about it and how it makes you think about how students could also do that type of challenge?

Laurel Martin [00:22:50]:

Sure. So, growing up, I didn't really ride a bike, so I know they say you don't really forget how to ride a bike, but I never really learned. But three years ago, I bought a bike and I started riding. And this summer I rode 544 miles across Iowa over six days. So we averaged about 90 miles a day. I can honestly say that Iowa is not flat. It is as hilly as Kentucky. But it was one of those things that was challenging.

Laurel Martin [00:23:17]:

I wasn't completely sure I could do it. And I think as adults, as leaders, as managers, as parents, as educators, it's really important to continue to find these ways to challenge ourselves, in part because it's what we're doing with our students. And so when we invite students to come into our simulation space and be the CEO of Fork Bank or the Chief Marketing Officer at Ups, we tell them, this is your first day of work, and the first day of work can be scary. You're going to have to learn the computer system, you're going to have to learn how to run a meeting, you're going to have to do all of these things. And I think for us to challenge ourselves to do that helps that remain a very authentic conversation with our students. And so I really respect and value the opportunity to make myself a little bit uncomfortable because I think that's what we're asking our students to do. And I think it's in those spaces that we learn the most. It's the most memorable.

Laurel Martin [00:24:18]:

And I've been reading a book that has talked a little bit about the role of failure in education. And obviously we want to take very safe, calculated risk. But I do think taking risk and stretching is part of that educational process when it's really operating the way it's supposed to. And this idea of failing forward is one that I've really gotten sort of excited about. And so as a manager of an educational organization, I try to put into the staff culture this idea that you can try new things, you can stretch. And if we fail, we'll figure out what we learn from that and we'll adapt moving forward. But I've always appreciated working in a space that allowed for failure and viewed that as a growth opportunity. I think that's part of the education process.

Laurel Martin [00:25:06]:

So we have to mirror that as staff and educators if we want to be in that space and be in that space successfully.

Liza Holland [00:25:13]:

Oh, I agree with you so much. And as we start to transition more to deeper learning and giving teachers more agency and students more agency, that it's really changing the power dynamic there and moving teachers into a more facilitative role, that's going to be a little uncomfortable to begin. But on the other hand, you're going to engage your students in ways that you've never seen before and that's just really exciting. So I know you have a lot of background in culture and organizational culture. What do you think is an important thing for us to be considering within the school? So often you walk into a school and you know pretty quickly if it's a positive culture or a negative culture, and that really does come from the admin in the top. What are your thoughts on organizational culture in schools?

Laurel Martin [00:26:08]:

This question makes me think of a leader that I worked for once who always said that school needs to be a safe and happy place. We don't know where our students are coming from. We don't know what their mourning has been. We don't know what their families are dealing with. I think good educators do start to know that about their students. But what he shared with us was our job was to be at that front door, smiling, happy, ready, and to put really the face and personality and attitude on education that we wanted our students to assume. And so I do think that schools should feel like a happy, positive, safe place, and how that has manifested changes. I mean, schools have personalities, and like you said, you can walk into any one of our schools in Fayette County or surrounding counties, and there's a personality there.

Laurel Martin [00:26:56]:

And it's always fun to see how it's demonstrated and how it sort of trickles down and is manifested and embodied by the students, the teachers, the families. But I do think managing that culture is incredibly important. And we've talked a lot about culture in business. I think education may be slower to start to really address that and think about that. I can remember in one of my graduate classes, there was a comment made that business has been quicker to learn from education than education has been to learn from business. And it's been 20 years since I heard that statement, and I think there's been a lot of progress made since then. But I do think that there's a lot of truth to that. And we work really hard in corporate professional development and leadership development to talk about the value of managing culture.

Laurel Martin [00:27:47]:

And I think that is a key role for educational leaders. I also think it's what teachers do in their individual classroom. They're leading 30 young people, so I think they're also doing that. And I think you're right. The media has focused on a lot of things. But I think at the end of the day, the classrooms that we're spending time in, it's not always a good reflection of what we're seeing. These teachers are doing amazing work, and these young people are so excited and ready to learn, and they soak it up. And I think that's the kind of space we're trying to create.

Laurel Martin [00:28:18]:

And I'm fortunate that I get to see that and be a part of that on a regular basis through this role.

Liza Holland [00:28:24]:

That's exciting. Tell me a little bit about being outside of the system and working with it. What types of challenges and obstacles do you face and what would you like for decision makers to know to maybe make that easier?

Laurel Martin [00:28:41]:

Yeah, I think one of the first thoughts I have about that is starting during the pandemic in this role, just trying to understand what the educational space looked like as we moved through that pandemic and what educators were dealing with and how they were trying to navigate all of that. But again, I do think part of it is that every educational space has a different personality, a different culture. They're serving a different group of students. They have a different set of challenges. So it really is about trying to learn who they are to be a good partner. And so we spend a lot of time just trying to figure out what it is that they're trying to create and where are their pain points, where can we be a good partner and what do they need. And for a lot of the workforce piece, I think providing opportunities for young people to shadow, to go spend the day in a business, to hear someone speak about their role, is really valuable. Because, again, if your mom wasn't a dental hygienist, you might not know that that was a career that you could do.

Laurel Martin [00:29:43]:

If your dad was not a banker, how would you know that the banking industry was there? And so I think allowing young people to see the opportunities really helps them start to figure out what they might want to be when they're older. And that's a challenge. There's so many opportunities out there. And your earlier point that we don't know what positions we're preparing them for because they don't exist yet, but helping them understand the breadth and depth of what makes up a community is good. And I know there's a lot of talk in educational circles about the brain drain and how do you keep young people in the communities they were raised in and help them see that there's opportunities. And I think that's one of the things that we have the chance to do is to bring education and corporate together so that young people, whether they stay or go, they have a better sense of what exists in their community. What salary range is there, what educational requirements are there so that they know that there is a place for them where they're from, if that's where they want to be or if they want to come back to that. But balancing that with this idea that there's a lot of opportunity out there, so you might want to go and explore that.

Laurel Martin [00:30:50]:

I'm one of those people that graduated from high school in Lexington, went to college here, went away and was gone for 13 years and got to experience a lot of other things. And I think that it makes me appreciate this community more and it also allows me to be a better community member because I have some examples of what happened in other places. And so I think we're helping young people start down that pathway of exploration so when they do settle somewhere, they're able to be true partners.

Liza Holland [00:31:18]:

That is so true. And I think that that's part of why I started this podcast, is everybody comes at things from different perspectives and all the different experiences you have really change how you look at things. And so that's a really good piece to talk about the fact. But yeah. So that even if our students are leaving, if we continue to provide interesting opportunities and whatnot, they may very well come back because there is that attractiveness of being able to come home. And they will come back with all kinds of neat new experiences to bring and to enrich our community and our culture and all those kind of good things very much like yourself.

Laurel Martin [00:32:04]:

Thank you.

Liza Holland [00:32:05]:

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you and your time and your perspective. Look forward to working with you in the future.

Laurel Martin [00:32:12]:

That's awesome. Thank you, Liza. Thank you for doing this. It's really exciting to know that there's people like you out there really trying to bring the educational conversation to the forefront and make it accessible to everyone who might get involved in some way. So thank you for doing that.

Liza Holland [00:32:26]:

Appreciate it.

Laurel Martin [00:32:28]:

All right, thank you.

Liza Holland [00:32:30]:

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Education Perspectives. Feel free to share your thoughts on our Facebook page. Let us know which Education Perspectives you would like to hear or share. Please subscribe and share with your friends.