Adam Smith on Resilience and Social Justice: Education’s Role in Building a Better Future

Adam Smith

Founder and Lead Education Consultant 

Smith Education Consultants

Quote of the Podcast: 

We all do better, when we all do better - Senator Paul Wellstone

Introduction of Guest BIO – 

Adam A. Smith is a first-generation college graduate who has dedicated his almost three-decade career to ensuring college access and success for all Americans. He served as the founding Director of the TRIO Upward Bound program at Rock Valley College and later as the college’s Dean of Students. He taught both undergraduate and graduate level courses at Judson University in Elgin, Illinois, and was appointed to serve as the City of Rockford’s (IL) “Education Czar” to former mayor Lawrence J. Morrissey. Adam worked at Metropolitan State University as Director of Multicultural, American Indian and Retention Services, The University of Alabama as Director of Undergraduate Academic Advising and Student Success and at The University of Akron as Assistant Vice President of Student Success. He also has undergraduate admissions experience from his time at The University of Tennessee. Smith currently works at the University of Kentucky as Executive Director for University Academic Advising and has a vibrant public speaking and educational consulting firm, Smith Education Associates, LLC and is the host of The Get Uncomfortable podcast and is represented by the Institute of Democratic Education & Culture, “SpeakOut”, the nation’s only social justice speaker agency. Adam has built successful coalitions and initiatives that have transformed high school graduation rates, college enrollment and success for students throughout the nation.

Interview

Agents of Change: Leaders/Innovators

•  30,000 Ft. View – Why do we, as a society invest in education?
• What drew you to education?
• Higher education. 
• College students since the return for lock down, 
• Student success, student mental health and well-being, 
• The impact of anti-DEI legislation on student success and belonging
• What are the biggest challenges to you?
• What would you like decision-makers to know?

Podcast/book shoutouts

The Get Uncomfortable Podcast, Smith Education Associates, LLC,

SpeakOut - The Institute for Democratic Education and Culture

Education Perspectives is edited by Shashank P

Intro and Outro by Dynamix Productions

Transcript

Liza Holland [00:00:02]:
Welcome to education perspectives. I am your host, Liza Holland. This is a podcast that explores the role of education in our society from a variety of lenses. Education needs to evolve to meet the needs of today and the future. Solving such huge issues requires understanding. Join me as we begin to explore the many perspectives of education.

Liza Holland [00:00:29]:
Adam a Smith is a first generation college graduate who has dedicated his almost three decade career to ensuring college access and success for all Americans. He served as the founding director of the trio upward bound program at Rock Valley as the college's dean of students. He taught both undergraduate and graduate level courses at Judson University in Elgin, Illinois and was appointed to serve as a city of Rockford, Illinois' Education Czar to former mayor Lawrence j Morrissey. Adam worked at Metropolitan State University as director of multicultural American Indian and retention services, the University of Alabama as director of undergraduate academic advising and student success, and at the University of Akron as assistant vice president of student success. He also has undergraduate admissions experience from his time at the University of Tennessee. Smith currently works at the University of Kentucky as executive director for the university academic advising and has a vibrant public speaking and educational consulting firm, Smith Education Associates LLC, and is the host of Get Uncomfortable podcast and is represented by the Institute of Democratic Education and Culture, Speak Out, the nation's only social justice speaker agency. Adam has built successful coalitions and initiatives that have transformed high school graduation rates, college enrollment, and success for students throughout the nation. Well, Adam, welcome to Education Perspectives.

Adam Smith [00:01:59]:
We're so excited to have you here today.

Adam Smith [00:02:02]:
I'm excited to be here, Liza. Thank you so much for joining me.

Liza Holland [00:02:06]:
Well, it's always awesome to be able to, to interview a fellow podcaster, so you'll have to give me tips on the end. So but let me kick you off with the 30,000 foot view. Why do you think that we as a society should invest in education?

Adam Smith [00:02:22]:
Oh my gosh. There's, you know, there's very few things in our society that are wealth building that you can truly tie to building wealth, familial wealth, generational wealth. Property ownership is one of those things. The other thing is education. Right? I mean, my grandchildren, we were talking about before before we hit record, their lives are gonna be completely different because grandma and papa went to college and became educated and now their mom and, you know, their dad and down the road. So I think it stopped, it starts creating lighted runways for people and real opportunities and paths to building wealth, generational wealth. But it doesn't have to be education that's college per se. It can be anything in the post secondary realm.

Adam Smith [00:03:15]:
Technical education, it's just education beyond. It's really, really something that you begin to bear fruit of, but more importantly at this season in my life, my family. So it's, it's one of those wealth building in so many ways, different things that I think is something we as a society need to continue to invest in. As we know people who are more educated make a more profound impact financially, but also socially, economically, politically on society.

Liza Holland [00:03:46]:
Boy, that is a fantastic answer. And I love the broad definition of wealth. It's not just all about money, and that's that is so incredibly true, and it it makes our society function in such, such more positive ways. So you've actually, chosen a career in higher education. What drew you to education? Tell us a little bit about your pathway to get there.

Adam Smith [00:04:10]:
I, you know, I was a horrible college student. I went to college to play football, and that was really why I was there, you know, in my first iteration, then I had a knee issue and had to take some time off and and have a surgery and then went to a different school and went to that school and just had a great time. I mean, just I was the student that he didn't even think, you know how sometimes when you're in college, you have that little voice that what I call the angel Bart Simpson and the devil Bart Simpson. And one that's saying go to class, you need to do the right thing. And the other one saying you'll be fine. Just all I had was the devil Bart Simpson. And had to take some time off forcibly, you know, from the University of Wisconsin telling me, you know what? You're not ready. This isn't your season.

Adam Smith [00:04:57]:
And had to go back home to Minneapolis at twenty, drive a school bus was crazy. I don't know who would have trusted me with their children, but that's what I did. And in the evenings, because I owed the school some money, I had to clean car dealerships and really realized what it was like what that true wealth we were talking about, what wealth I didn't have because I had money. Right? But I didn't enjoy what I was doing. I didn't have meaning. I didn't have purpose. I didn't have a sense of belonging. I didn't have a sense of joy in what I did.

Adam Smith [00:05:32]:
And so when I was blessed to have the opportunity to get into Concordia University in just north of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, went there and studied to be a pastor, studied ministry and theology, and never even visited the school. But, higher power opened the door, and I just knew I didn't want to live the life like my family was living. And I wanted meaning. I wanted purpose. I wanted impact. And so that's what I did, thinking capital M Ministry would be my work for the rest of my life. And when I finally graduated after doing a lot of community activism work around, bringing people together, bringing various denominations, different faith groups together, Started doing AmeriCorps national service, working in non profits, and then got into TRIO programs, which Upward Bound has really been there, providing access to education for so many young people who are first gen, low income, who comes from families with disabilities. And that was an opportunity to do the hard work while doing it in the structure of an institution of higher ed.

Adam Smith [00:06:38]:
And it's just been now in, 2025 will be now a quarter century that I've spent in higher education, which is which is amazing to continue to do that revolutionary, what I would call table tip and foot washing work through higher education that I've been honored to do now for a really, really long time for that student who higher education didn't really work for during a couple seasons who now have a chance to try to make higher education work for all.

Liza Holland [00:07:08]:
Boy, that's so neat. It kinda makes me think of my son got out of, of high school, and he was so over schooled, he couldn't even deal. And so my husband thought I was insane, but I took a a tip from the Europeans, and I sent him on a gap year to, to Australia on a work and play visa. And he did all these jobs that he never wants to have to do again. He did construction. He did, security work. He, you know, he worked on the farms. The one the one that he couldn't stick with was picking peppers because in the hundred degree.

Adam Smith [00:07:46]:
But he came back a changed person. And going back into school, that bit of perspective, I think, can be really powerful. I think of even myself. I was one of those fairly dutiful students. But if I had the context of what was how it was gonna apply in real life, I think I would have been a much better student. So, yeah, that's pretty neat. And, boy, you've had such an impact. We met.

Liza Holland [00:08:12]:
You were kind enough to ask me to come to, speak to your class, and I love that freshman class. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what that class does and hopes to, to do for students?

Adam Smith [00:08:23]:
Yeah. I've been honored to teach what they call first year studies or first year experience classes. They have been around since the late nineteen eighties. The University of South Carolina started first year studies classes like the university 100 and one's, those kind of courses. And I've been honored to teach those classes now at three or four schools right now, teach it at at my job here at the University of Kentucky. But it is an opportunity, what I always call freshly mowed grass. You know, what other business do we get people every single year who have no concept or idea of who we are, what the work is? You know, it's freshly mowed grass. Wow, is this great? And so before I started my current position or before I started any position, and this is the third, I think, SCC school I've worked at, One of the first things I ask is, can I teach first year studies? You know, can I have an opportunity to have 25 or 30 new students every semester that you get a chance to teach from the ground up? You know, you assume they know nothing.

Adam Smith [00:09:30]:
They've never been to college before. So teaching them how to take notes, how to integrate with the institution, how to do something as simple as sending an appropriate email. When we say things like study, what what does that mean? Right? What are the kinds of social responsibilities that go along with this opportunity that for many of our students, for generations, their family have fought to give them? Right? What does that look like? So it's a class where you really get a chance to teach what I used to do as a football coach, basic drills from alignment to assignment to responsibility. Right? Teaching all those things while also teaching some of the bigger picture things, like you came in to talk about the responsibility and process of being a voter in America. What does that look like? And what what are the kinds of responsibility that goes along with being a voter in our society? So teaching some of that adulting one zero one while also at the same time teaching university one zero one.

Liza Holland [00:10:35]:
I just think that's such a gift to the students. We don't do enough of that through our our preparatory work for kids, and we need to be pushing that type of of work down into, into the p 12 space as well. But I'm so glad that you're doing it because it was neat to see those students and how responsive they were, how curious they were to be able to participate in the discussion and whatnot. And so that kinda gives us a nice bridge. We have a little bit of discussion about college students since the return from lockdown. And I'd love for you to speak to that a little bit because that's a big topic of conversation amongst educators all across the board is that that was a huge disruption, sometimes good, sometimes bad.

Adam Smith [00:11:21]:
Yeah. Well and they are I have an honor of having a partnership with the Association of College and University Educators, AQ. And we're doing this webinar series called they ain't broken. Right? This idea that we have as Gen Xers. And I think we were proven a lot of us were proven wrong when the lockdown hit and COVID hit, when work was everything to us and we realized work just isn't that important. And we realized, you know, we would look at millennials and roll our eyes. Like, they want a job of purpose. How about just get out of here and grind? That's your purpose.

Adam Smith [00:11:55]:
Right? But we've all learned, I think, from those experiences in the pandemic and the experiences of some of the trauma that was hitting politically and socially and, and in our communities, seeing those things really put things in perspective for us. And what I've seen from young people, they're just phenomenal. The kinds of things that would have had me curled up in the fetal position in the corner, they're still here. They are resilient. They are gritty. They are responsible and responsive. You saw my class. That wasn't our normal meeting room.

Adam Smith [00:12:30]:
We just moved the class. And 85, 90 percent of them show up when you ask them to, especially if they know you care about them and you love them. They're gonna be there. Now have they seen things? The students we have now were in eighth grade when the lockdown hit. And so how they're ex they've experienced education is just different. Right? And there are things that the brains of eighth graders, ninth graders, tenth graders, right, shouldn't see. That they had to see. You know, it wasn't back when I was in high school, we had to turn the channel to watch unrest or prepare ourselves by saying, I'm gonna put in a PG 13 movie.

Adam Smith [00:13:13]:
I can get my brain prepared what it's gonna see. They're just scrolling on their phone, and some crazy stuff is coming through the airways at them and they're forced to be at home. Not just with families where parents had to work, you know, or low income families, whether it's in rural or urban Kentucky or wherever it is in the country, but also families that are to some extent dysfunctional. And their only function is we're not with each other a lot. But now we're forced to be together, right? And forced to be in space together. And a lot of those things, in fact, affected our young people. And so how they deal with how they interact with higher education is different. I don't know one person in this work nationally that admits or that doesn't admit they don't know what these students are.

Adam Smith [00:14:04]:
Right? I mean, we are exhausted as institutions exhausted as practitioners because we're dealing with the soreness that comes from changing and using muscles differently. You know, how young people are asking for higher ed and for all of us to serve them is just different than we did in the before time. And kind of living in that space of not knowing because the students we have that are freshmen today, fall twenty four are different than '23, different than '22 and '21. It'll take us five ten years Just to get used to training this way and being called on to serve this way But it isn't that the students are broken one thing that I always tell people one of the institutions I I was honored to serve in a in an advising leadership role, we were called upon nationally to write papers and present at conferences because 85% of the students who scheduled advising appointments at our institution came to those appointments. 85 was was remarkable. Like, it was a national thing. It was this huge you can 85. I Aiza, I can tell you.

Adam Smith [00:15:14]:
I don't show up to anything 85% of the time. That's pretty good. Since I have been in my current role post pandemic, our students are showing up 93% of the time. They schedule an appointment and they go. They are where they need to be. That really puts a burden on us back to my ministry background of what we do with that time because they're coming. They're showing up. They are present.

Adam Smith [00:15:39]:
Right? They're in those spaces. So it's really important. What do we do with that time? Because we have FaceTime with them. Their level of maturity and understanding unintended and intended consequences of decisions is second to none. But we still have to understand that emotionally, there's a reason why we aren't we don't see those things. And so emotionally, sometimes that's a little crippling to be thinking about unintended and intended. So now as institutions, I think we're really called upon to limit choices, to swaddle them more so they know where the edges are. Right? To give them, okay, do you wanna do this? Or what do you think about trying this? And just two choices.

Adam Smith [00:16:26]:
Pick those so that we aren't overwhelming them because there are things that the brains of 18 year olds can't handle that these young people have been forced to see. And so they're very limited in the capacity to deal with that scene. So our job is to provide much more structure and support for them and care.

Adam Smith [00:16:48]:
And that's a fine balance. Right? Because you also want to empower them to be drivers of their own destiny and that sort of a thing. But I totally get the overwhelm. I mean, I'll be honest with you. Netflix for me is so overwhelming. I'm more comfortable in the old whatever's on live TV, and let's just flick to something there. But on the other hand, I think of it as a really great opportunity for our educators and our educational institutions to look and go, okay. We need to spend more time in that learning space, which is not really where our comfort zone in is.

Adam Smith [00:17:22]:
It's beyond. It's how do we, you know, start to meet the needs of, of the world today. And the pay the pace of change is just phenomenal. I heard a speaker not long ago who said that in, you know, seventies and eighties, a college degree would get you about thirty years into your career before really, you know, needing to make change. Now it's eighteen months. So it's really incumbent upon us to be able to change how we teach. You know? I mean, the content is there. Right? You've got it in your pocket.

Adam Smith [00:17:57]:
Hey, Siri. Answer this question for me. So much more about how do we process that information and how do we look at this massive choice and win it winnow it down and those sorts of things. So it's it I feel like it's a real pivot point, not only for our students, but for our educators and institutions as well.

Adam Smith [00:18:18]:
Oh, yeah. And and it really starts and, you know, as a child of somebody who struggled with addiction, it it starts with admitting you're powerless. Right? I think we, as folks who survived this time that we lost more people on this planet than every world war combined, wanna pretend like it didn't happen. Well, the economy is messed up. Well, yeah, we had World War one, World War two, Vietnam, Korea, all of it in one time. And, yes, that's gonna affect everything afterwards. Everything. And so I think our young people know that they lived through that.

Adam Smith [00:18:59]:
They also know that in many ways, we wanna pretend like it didn't happen because we wanna get back to quote, unquote normal, But this is their new normal. And so how do we pivot and serve and support and care for them in a different way? A colleague of mine said a couple months ago when we were doing a talk, said, you know, I just don't get these young people and they they have so many mental health issues. So many mental health issues going on today. I said, but I went to college in the nineties. We just didn't deal we just buried our mental health issues. And, you know, we self medicated with alcohol, marijuana, hanging out, whatever we were doing. It doesn't mean that these young people have more. They're just aware.

Adam Smith [00:19:48]:
And they're honest about it.

Adam Smith [00:19:49]:
And they know how to name it. And they're honest about it. And they they help seek, and they they say, hey, I'm dealing with depression, or I'm dealing with anxiety, or I go I need to get a new therapist. That is just elevating it, and they're almost demanding that their institutions fill those gaps. Right? Because the communities are being inundated. So now the institutions that our students live in and are a part of, we're called upon to serve more and to be more because the students are demanding. They're asking for more, and it's been destigmatized. So I don't know if there's more mental health issues.

Adam Smith [00:20:26]:
I think there's more demand because the young people are honest about it with themselves first and foremost, as well as with others. Hey. I need a gym, and I also need a good therapist in my new hometown. That that's a pretty good thing.

Adam Smith [00:20:39]:
I think that's a great thing because it really was extremely stigmatized when you and I were going to college. It's you know? So I think the stress levels were there, but you're right. That self medication, I saw that play out all the time. And especially with students who were not given their own empowered to make their own decisions when they were younger, this helicopter parenting has a really bad backlash when kids get out there and whatnot. I'd love to dig in a little bit. You have a very healthy speaking career and a neat podcast, and I'd love to hear a little bit about what kind of topics you are are being asked to speak about on the road these days.

Adam Smith [00:21:19]:
Well, everything. I mean, I I do. So my I'm proud to be represented by speak out, which is it's known as speak out. So that's where you would find speak out on the web. But it's the Institute for Democratic Education and Culture, and they are the nation's largest and biggest non profit social justice speakers bureau. People on the roster like, like Angela Davis and Tim Wise and Erica Alexander and just some amazing world changing folks that somehow I got let into the the outskirts of the club. So we talk a lot about some of the similar spaces that I talk being a multiracial black person, I have a different experience of life. I have this this true insight into race relations, justice, and then on top of it, you had this ministry background.

Adam Smith [00:22:13]:
So I not only know from my faith walk the human that Jesus of Nazareth was, but I know the God he is. Right? And so there's a lot of that that has to do with service to the least of these. That has to do with caring for others, that has to do with giving back. And I feverishly know where that person would have stood on a lot of the social issues of today, that I think some people get mixed up. Sometimes the person and why that person was so persecuted. Right? And who that person was standing with and for and because of. And so I do a lot of speaking around education, of course, because that's that's my work. But then do a lot of like where my podcast lives where try to make comfortable community around uncomfortable conversations.

Adam Smith [00:23:03]:
Would that get uncomfortable podcast? So the conversations that we don't wanna talk about at family dinners or barbecues, race, politics, religion, we try to talk about and just make comfortable. We always say you could get comfortable with a rock in your shoe, doesn't make you healthy. So how do we have those conversations in spaces where we can feel safe, we can feel comfortable, where we can normalize those conversations so that we can get to a space of healing? So that's where that came from. And then it all just kinda jettisoned from a time I was working in Knoxville, Tennessee, was working remote before everybody was working remote for a national nonprofit, and just had an opportunity to settle and breathe and figure out the difference between my work and my career. Right? And how those are different things. There's a theologian that talks about that a person's calling. Right? A person's, yeah, that calling in your career comes from where your greatest gift meets the world's biggest need. And when you asked earlier about me going into education, I I still walk through doors that are open for me and have no idea why I'm here or what I'm here to do.

Adam Smith [00:24:23]:
I just know that the door opens, and I try to be faithful enough to walk through. So having that time in Knoxville to really reflect created a lot of webinars. And so that helped be a thing that filled the need in in the world and started partnering with some really great partners like Infobase and AQ and different companies. And that got me to speak out and got me speaking and then started the pod. And in 2025, we'll have, my first book will be released. So I'm I'm super excited about that opportunity as well. But it's all just been, you know, when I was that kid driving a school bus, thinking I can't go and go into the ministry because I listen to hip hop music and chase some girls and tend to be regular people. I sat with my pastor and he said to me, Why don't you think you can do this? And I said, Well, I'm just regular.

Adam Smith [00:25:20]:
You know, I'm gonna leave here and I'm gonna listen to NWA and my car going home. And he said, but that's not your job. Your job is just to see the doors that have been opened for you and to be faithful enough to walk through even though you don't know why and you're scared out of your mind. And that's kind of guided my whole life. And it's been doing the pod and speaking nationally and, you know, doing the book have all just been doors that higher powers open for me that I've just, I guess, been crazy enough just to walk through and say yes.

Liza Holland [00:25:53]:
That's kinda magical, though. You know? I mean, really being present and and realizing that those doors are opening. You know, I I personally have been going through a bit of a switch in my life, and I just really feel called to this education space, hence the pod and everything else. But I've had a lot of doors close in my face for wanting to join others that are currently in the work as it were. You know? You don't have an education background. Well, you know, you'd have a better chance of being hit by lightning than doing this. And I'm like, okay. So how do I take that and find new doors, find new places to go? Because I do think that there's probably a reason why those doors that I thought I needed to go through were not open.

Adam Smith [00:26:41]:
And maybe there's some others that I'm just you know, I just need to turn. I need to pivot. Yeah. No. That's pretty magical. I love that.

Adam Smith [00:26:47]:
Well and it's that vocation. Right? My wife and I, a couple years ago, my wife works in education. So my whole family does, which is even more crazy. It's the family business. Right? I have a daughter who's a middle school educator, a daughter who works, at at, works with athletics, in universities. My wife works in higher ed, and my son works at, a hospital, a university teaching hospital. So the interesting thing was one year for spring break, my wife and I took a spring break trip, you know, when I think we were in Tucson or something. And so one day we were having brunch and she said, well, what do you wanna do today? And I said, well, I thought maybe we'd go check out the University of Arizona, you know, because it's right there and we'd go check it out.

Adam Smith [00:27:33]:
And she was like, I was kind of thinking the same thing. So we went, walked around campus, you know, went to a microbrew, got a beer watched, I think the final four was happening. So we watched a little basketball and hung out in the student union at the University of Arizona, took some pictures. Right? And when I got back to my institution, we were sitting in a leadership meeting, and somebody said, weren't you on spring break? And I said, well, yeah. Well, we saw you on Instagram at the University of Arizona. Yeah. We're just checking it out. And someone said, I thought you'd want a break from college students.

Adam Smith [00:28:08]:
And at that moment, I noticed I understood that vocation. Kinda what you're talking about. Right? That some people have gifts that are they do a great job at their work, and that's wonderful. That's their career. But they they have a calling that's separate. You, me, we happen to be blessed and cursed that our calling is our career. Yes. Well, doggone it.

Adam Smith [00:28:33]:
Then people are gonna look at you like, can't you dial this back? Can't you well, no. I mean, Jay z listens to music all the time. Right? I mean, people who are called to do a thing, you know, Gordon Ramsay eats food at other people's restaurants all over the world on Uncharted all the time, because it's his gift. It's his calling. It's his vocation. And so some people and I've had to recognize my maybe weirdness is the best way, that there are plenty of people who do a great job in their career in education, but their calling is just something else. Yeah. And that is the blessing and the curse of being called to do the same thing that is your career.

Adam Smith [00:29:21]:
Because everyone else who has a different calling that are doing a great job at their career will look at you like, what? Why are you so intense about this? Why are you hanging around at the University of Arizona on your spring break?

Liza Holland [00:29:33]:
Yeah. But, you know, on the other hand, it feels so good to be immersed in it. So I'll take being weird any day, honestly. It's a good good space to be in and just, you know, kinda acting like water. I'll find my way somehow. So one other thing that we chatted about just briefly that's kind of been topical, and I guess your discussion around the path of ministry as well as education. This recent rash of, like, anti DEA DEI, legislation and, you know, problems with students with bathrooms and all of this kind of a thing that just seem very not in line with the the God in Christ that I grew up and know. You know? I mean, it just seems to be opposite being done in the name of.

Adam Smith [00:30:29]:
And I would wonder what your thoughts are, especially since you're in higher education now. I know, you know, UK had to disband their their department. How do you navigate approaching that kind of thing with kids and yet staying true to making opportunity available for for everybody on a conscious basis?

Adam Smith [00:30:51]:
It's a really good question. A lot of this, when when all the legislation throughout the country was coming down, I was reminded of Scooby Doo. Remember Scooby Doo? You know? And they would and Scooby and Shaggy and the whole gang, they would spend twenty minutes with commercials trying to find this crazy ghost to a monster that was haunting something. And then by the time they captured the ghost, right, and then the police would be there, and then Freddie would pull the mask off the ghost, and they would say, and this is mister Johnson, the, you know, whatever, the janitor who didn't want people to clean up the business. Right? I think there's been a lot of unmasking going on that are kind of revealing folks that, you know, folks, institutions, people that were really about true care. Right? Foot washing, table tip, and work. And some of that means standing on a bridge. Some of that means standing with trans peep queer people and women and people of color.

Adam Smith [00:31:55]:
And it doesn't just mean going with the flow because it's in vogue at the time. You know, five years ago, there wasn't an institution in the country that wasn't posting diversity and inclusion, AVPs and deans and associate deans, and that was the thing. Well, it only took some political pressure for folks to say, I guess we're not about that anymore. Well, I think you weren't about it in the first place then. Right? Because there is some standing on the bridge that has to happen if at at least in my faith walk, my role model died for convictions, died for the people, died because he said I am who you say I am. Right? Died because it wasn't popular to stand with prostitutes and poor people and and all the things, the least of these. Right? And so for me, I think this next evolution because you can't stop inclusion and justice. You can't.

Adam Smith [00:33:00]:
No legislator, president, college, university official, anybody. Right? You can't stop that. I think the folks in some states who have outlawed, AP FM history need to know some American history to really understand that you have an entire nation founded on revolution. Right? And understand the reason why, especially black and brown people, are still here facing genocide in this country. So it isn't that you're going to stop change. You're gonna stop people from embracing equity, inclusion, justice. I think what needs to happen now is a reexamining of what that truly looks like, what you know, being willing to be uncomfortable with some of those conversations around diversity, inclusion, women's issues don't belong just to women, just to queer people, just to brown people. And it was often right face, right place, or only place people could work.

Adam Smith [00:34:09]:
And now we're gonna have to embed these kinds of things in the curriculum, in the culture, because that's what the world is. Can't stop the world from becoming the world, especially our young people. When you say around an election time that you didn't know a candidate was black, that you thought the candidate was Indian, and you thought they were Asian, and but now they're black. If they wanna be black, that's a I look at my students today, and that's my students' family. Right? I mean, that is their cousins and their aunts and their brothers. You can be trans and you can be black and you can be Asian and you can be a woman and you can be, a Muslim all at the same time.

Adam Smith [00:34:52]:
All at the same time. Exactly.

Adam Smith [00:34:54]:
And people don't take off and put on identity to please other people. And so when I have a huge amount of faith in these young people today and what their values and beliefs are. I've they are the greatest generation of college going people that I've seen in now a quarter decade in this work, quarter century in this work. They are resilient. They are gritty. They are inclusive. They are willing to not believe the hype that the old people tell them that may not be true. They look around and their world are these intersects of people, and they don't love their trans family member in spite of them being trans.

Adam Smith [00:35:37]:
They love them because they're trans. Right? And they're willing to have those conversations because they've known and they've witnessed the world burning and what happens when you don't. And so I think a lot of the backlash in the removal of things like DE and I when this really should just be me, you, and I. Right? It should just be part of who we are. These honest and true and real conversations that have to do with an examining of each one of us really personally, rather than saying, well, I read this book. I read Ebrahim Ebrahim Kendi's book, so I'm good. Right? Looking at examining ourselves as individuals, I think the young people will really lead us to that spot and to a space where it's more personal than it is place or process or institutional responsibility. So not that I like that those offices and there's been an attack on those things I wish we could do yes and.

Adam Smith [00:36:41]:
But like you said about the water, as long as you stand on the side of justice and unrighteousness, you know you're gonna win. It just isn't about yes. It's about when.

Adam Smith [00:36:52]:
You know, the other thing that I see so much in the national politics is they're just focused so much on othering in black and white. And not skin type, but, you know, either something is good or evil. You know? And that's not the reality of the world either, and that's I see that myself in my kids and their friends and that sort of thing. And they grew up in a multicultural, interesting, diverse type of a community, and I get a lot of skepticism from them. I mean, they're like, yeah. Right. Whatever. I know what what is real for me.

Adam Smith [00:37:25]:
Well, it starts at that place of blame. Internalized blame. Well, I don't you know, I was I went my mom is in Minneapolis, and so I was getting on a plane to go see her, and I try to go see her every couple of months. And the airport's packed. I'm looking at my favorite sports team, the Minnesota Vikings stadium, and it's packed full of people. I drive past the outlet mall just between Louisville and and Lexington, and you can't find a place to park

Adam Smith [00:37:56]:
Mhmm.

Adam Smith [00:37:57]:
But the economy. So what it is is this cookie monster way that we approach things that we can't eat all the cookies, but we wanna try to eat all the cookies. And if we don't, because our meaning and purpose has to do with how much stuff we have or what we don't have, then we have to blame someone. And that's where the othering comes in. Right? I need more rather than, you know, senator Paul Wellstone, the late senator Paul Wellstone talks about we all do better when we all do better.

Adam Smith [00:38:29]:
Yes.

Adam Smith [00:38:29]:
Great Minnesota. We all do better when we all do better. And I think that's when when we embrace that kind of mindset that it's about lifting others up rather than I don't have x, and I have to blame the trans or the woman or the immigrant or the Muslim or the brown person or the this or the that. And that isn't even a blame that we articulate in ourselves. That's a blame that is in us. Right? And for some people, for all of us, there's times that when you have folks that play on that kind of bad ideal in us, that's when it gets scary. But I I I don't see young people embracing that. Even more, I don't see them embracing in the idea of I want more, more, more, more, more.

Adam Smith [00:39:17]:
Exactly. I think they're kind of over that too. Yeah. That's actually really exciting. So we probably have to put a little of our focus on on getting some of these other adults to to come back around to focusing on what's real and and what really matters.

Adam Smith [00:39:34]:
I have I have a lot of faith in people. I mean, when you dig in and you look at, you know, that the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Voter Rights Act of 1968, I mean, that's almost in my life. Pretty doggone close. And we are here in 2024. I have a good friend who's one of those real doomsday people. I say he's not a Methodist or a Buddhist. He's a, reactionist and an outrageous. He's outraged about everything.

Adam Smith [00:40:05]:
What is going on in the world? I had to tell him one day, I said, you know that this is the same world that Moses walked, and you know that The United States Of America compared to the place Mount Sinai where Moses was, right, is barely an infant. Barely. So, yeah, there's gonna be ups and downs and ebbs and flows. And still, we as humans will be here, right? And to think that what happens here in that same type of small view in The US is the whole world. We are occupying the same world that Moses and Elijah and Elisha and all of those biblical heroes, whether you believe in faith or life book, that makes you feel a little smaller, but it also gives you a lot of hope. That we we have a long runway to improve things and to get better. But it starts internally. It starts with each one of us as individuals.

Adam Smith [00:41:02]:
And that's why I love working with students so much. Because when they come to our university, they're family. And that's where, you know, I struggle with sometimes when we label parents helicopters. So these parents, they keep calling. I would ask some questions too if I'm giving you my most precious thing. Right? I mean, my mom had to have a spinal surgery, and I asked the neurologist hundreds of questions. Before, after, during? I didn't get labeled. Yeah.

Adam Smith [00:41:32]:
This is my most precious thing, and I'm trusting you as an educator with my most precious thing. And I'm gonna have a few questions. And if we respond in a way that is, no. I don't wanna answer them or, you're bothering me, or we take seriously the responsibility that we've been given by families, that we've been given by our higher power, that we've been given in general, that we have people's most precious thing. And every time when we have the opportunity to pour into them, we take it. That's what I love about our work. Because I get a chance at the end of every semester, I get to work on the macro level, institution wide. I get to work in the lives of my colleagues and and the people that I I'm honored to work with.

Adam Smith [00:42:19]:
But I also get to work with people's most precious thing and be able to impress on them in their lives. And that's that's a responsibility and a burden that, I hope to live up to every single day.

Adam Smith [00:42:30]:
Well, that's you know, that is so empowering too and to to take that viewpoint on parents in particular because parents get a bad rap a lot these days, and I really appreciate you bringing that up. And you've touched on some of this, but I love the fact that our conversation has been counter to a lot of national narratives around students. You know, you hear, oh, well, these young people, they're lazy. They can't communicate. They can't do this. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And that's not what you're seeing. That's not what I'm seeing.

Adam Smith [00:43:04]:
And so I think that's just refreshing, and I'm so glad we're bringing this to our listeners. So my final question is, what would you like for decision makers to know? And you can interpret that however you would like.

Adam Smith [00:43:17]:
To me, I think the this opportune I think first off, maybe even better since I'm a verbal processor. I think we're all decision maker. Mhmm. We make a decision if we're gonna listen to the devil bard on our shoulder, the angel bard on the shoulder. And sometimes the stuff the devil bard says, or is so great and so sexy and so attractive. Oh, it's blaming. It's I want this. It's what the hell is wrong with these kids today.

Adam Smith [00:43:46]:
It's all of this crazy stuff. When it's really, let's be growth mindset focused. These young people have survived a whole bunch. What a responsibility, what a burden. They're still here. Right? The same thing when the devil Bart Simpson says, these parents, they just keep calling. And every day I have to coach my team complaining about parents, and I have to remind them that these are their most precious thing. Do you ask questions when you go to the doctor? Or do you just take the medication that they they give you at the pharmacy? Do you ask what the side effects will be? Do you well, yeah, I do.

Adam Smith [00:44:26]:
Okay. Well, the parents are asking. Right? And the students are asking. They're looking for some reassurance. The best part is that we're we're able. We are all able to maybe think about others. You know, I think one of the pieces that our folks struggle with oftentimes is is when students don't or young people don't do the right thing. When they don't show up, when they don't I always remember back to being that student who got kicked out of the University of Wisconsin.

Adam Smith [00:45:01]:
And I'm reminded that if it wasn't for Grace, I wouldn't be here. Right? And so I'm reminded to tell myself, like, when we first talk, what do I show up to 93% of the time? I'm deadline motivated. I wouldn't file my taxes if there wasn't a deadline. Right? People that oftentimes in our work say, well, you know, they should come. They should be here. They should come. Okay. I'm glad they don't say that at the urgent care because there's sometimes that I pick the urgent care because it's a better way and an easier way and a way I choose to interact.

Adam Smith [00:45:36]:
And so for all of us as institutions, right, of of higher education, of K-twelve education, understanding that we are not the student's village. We might be a lamppost in the village. We have to ask their permission to be a part of their village and community. And if we are gonna be a part of their village and community, we have to recognize that they're gonna interact with us the same thing way we interact with our villages and communities. And if they are interacting in a way that we don't want them to, then who taught them to interact the wrong way? We must have. So then we have to re examine, right? Okay. Then how are we teaching? And the beauty of what we do, whether you are a K-twelve educator like my daughter, or you're a higher educator like my wife and my other daughter, myself, all of us, right? We have the blessing of having new clients, customers, parishioners every single year who don't know. So what an opportunity to say, okay, as a coach, I may not have taught them the way I wanted to.

Adam Smith [00:46:39]:
I got another 6,000 of them coming come August. I have an opportunity to coach different and to coach better. That is a huge blessing, and it it continues to make me excited for the work that we do.

Adam Smith [00:46:53]:
What a wonderful note to end a fabulous conversation on. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with me today.

Adam Smith [00:47:00]:
Liza, thank you so much. It's an honor.

Liza Holland [00:47:03]:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Education Perspectives. Feel free to share your thoughts on our Facebook page. Let us know which education perspectives you would like to hear or share. Please subscribe and share with your friends.