Advancing Public Education in Kentucky: Senator Reggie Thomas Discusses Policy and Progress

Sen Reggie Thomas

KY State Senator

Introduction of Guest BIO – 

Reggie Thomas graduated from Bryan Station High School in 1971. He earned a bachelor's degree from Dartmouth College in 1975 and a Juris Doctor from Harvard University in 1978. His career experience includes working as an assistant professor at Kentucky State University.

Interview

Agents of Change: Leaders/Innovators

•  30,000 Ft. View – Why do we, as a society invest in education?
• You are on the Senate Education Committee, What drew you to education?
• Role of Government in Education
• Changing role of education for our new economy
• What are the biggest challenges to you?
• What would you like decision-makers to know?

Podcast/ website/ book shoutouts

Transcript

Liza Holland [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Education Perspectives. I am your host, Liza Holland. This is a podcast that explores the role of education in our society from a variety of lenses. Education needs to evolve, to meet the needs of today and the future. Solving such huge issues requires understanding. Join me as we begin to explore the many perspectives of education.

Liza Holland [00:00:28]:
Senator Reggie Thomas graduated from Bryan Station high school in 1971. He earned a bachelor's degree from Dartmouth College in 1975 and a Juris Doctor from Harvard University in 1978. His career experience includes working as an assistant professor at Kentucky State University. And now, of course, he serves as senator in the Kentucky state legislature. Well, then, Senator Reggie Thomas, I am so proud and happy to have you here as a guest on Education Perspective Lives.

Reggie Thomas [00:01:00]:
Okay. Well, it's good to be in the company of lives on holiday. I'm enjoying this.

Liza Holland [00:01:05]:
Well, thank you so much. Going to kick you off with a big question from a 30,000 foot view. Why do you think that we as a society invest in education?

Reggie Thomas [00:01:16]:
Because we want enlightened viewpoints going forward. The world changes. We have inventions, we have production changes, architecture changes, living standards change. Life just changes. And we want to always look for improvements, new approaches, new methods and ways of doing things and that all of that comes from education. An educated society, a society that grows, prospers, advances, and that's why education is so important. Otherwise, if we're not enlightened society back in the dark ages and very vulnerable to abuses, misuses, just being marginalized and being taken advantage of, there's no benefit to anyone if they're uneducated and ignorant. I mean, that's why, if I may say, add this to your question, Liza, that's why slaves were not allowed to read or write because slave owners knew they were able to read or write.

Reggie Thomas [00:02:20]:
They could reason and rationalize their conduct and understand how wrong it was.

Liza Holland [00:02:28]:
Absolutely, absolutely. Good addition there. Appreciate it. So you sit on the Senate education committee for our great commonwealth of Kentucky. What drew you to being interested in the education Committee?

Reggie Thomas [00:02:46]:
Well, if you look at my life, you can see I've always taken a great deal of interest in being educated. I've always prioritized learning and wanting to learn as much as possible and wanting to get the best education possible. If you look at Lexington as a community, Lexington has a very high percentage college graduates. Almost one half of Lexington residents, almost one half are college of graduating for city election side to have a higher percentage of college graduates. And so knowing how important education was to me, how important education was to my community, it was just a natural decision to say, well, I want to sit on this education committee so I can learn as much for myself and benefit my community at the same time. And I do want to point this out to you, Liza. In my district 13, the University of Kentucky is in my Senate district. Transylvania is in my senate district.

Reggie Thomas [00:03:43]:
So the two institutions of higher education in Lexington are both my senate districts. But let me go further. Bluegrass Community and Technical College. The community college is also my city, and it takes it just to drill down one step further. The public school central office is in my district. So the four major learning institutions in Lexington, from K kindergarten and pre K all the way to graduate school PhDs are in my senate district.

Liza Holland [00:04:18]:
There's a lot of change happening in education, and in a lot of ways, Kentucky has been really on the forefront of education reform and making things happen. What to you? Let's start at the state level and then we'll move on to the federal level. But what do you think are the most important things happening on a positive note and maybe some of the biggest challenges that you're facing from a, you know, from a legislative standpoint in education in Kentucky?

Reggie Thomas [00:04:50]:
I think the most positive, and I think this is a positive. I think the biggest change in education from a positive standpoint would be artificial intelligence. Just a week ago, I was on a panel before the board of trustees of UK and other administrative officials at UK talking about AI and its impact in higher education and beyond. And artificial intelligence is here to stay. It can be used very productive to advance healthcare, to advance education instruction, to advanced research. There are no limits, really, in terms of what it can do to help promote all three of those critical areas in the education field. Now, obviously, what those advances comes to potential pitfalls. And I think we have to always be aware of those pitfalls.

Reggie Thomas [00:05:51]:
But I want to say this to you, Liza. I think regulation of AI has to be done very smart. Because more than anything else, education offers security benefits to our country and to Americans. And we don't want to let our enemies such as China and Russia, and I want to go on record and say I still need China and Russia as countries that are antithetical to what we believe, fundamentally believe here in America. We don't want to let them outpace us in the area of AI. So I'm not in favor of regulating AI to the extent that we lose advantages over countries whose intent is not, are not consistent with our own security purposes. But to answer your question, artificial intelligence, the biggest area of advancement in the field of education, particularly the area of Higher education.

Liza Holland [00:06:47]:
Well, I can imagine. What. What's the conversation amongst your colleagues like as far as regulation is concerned? I mean, I don't know that anybody knows for sure exactly how to regulate AI.

Reggie Thomas [00:07:00]:
I think they feel the same way I did, and they would probably articulate it in the similar manner that I just said that we need to understand AI, we need to recognize its benefits, we need to authorize and utilize its benefits, but always be aware of what potential risks they are and where those risks can impact people's lives. Obviously take steps to minimize and eliminate that.

Liza Holland [00:07:27]:
You know, one of the things that the legislature is responsible for is determining what, you know, how we measure success in education. And I'm personally pretty gratified to see this move. Pilot moves to a more local accountability model that will expand what success means beyond just those state test scores. Love to hear your thoughts on what we ought to be measuring for to make sure that we have productive citizens coming out of our education system.

Reggie Thomas [00:08:03]:
Well, Liza, here's how I think we ought to measure success, and that's a great question. I think we ought to measure success by taking a baseline of what we consider proficient or advanced learning and every year have better scores than the parents. I think that would be considered a success. If we can see the line of graph line going upward every year, then I will. That's success to me. If our reading achievement has increased from the previous year, if our math scores have increased over the previous year, same in science and other areas, then that's success. And of course, the contrast to that, if we would not be successful, if we see declines, that would be alarming. And then we would need to have to explain what's going on there, what is it we're doing that's not correct and what changes need to be made.

Reggie Thomas [00:09:01]:
At the same time, Liza, I think we have to try to get that proper balance between terms of going on to college and students going on to some kind of training. Obviously, those students who want to go to college, we want to see them go to college and graduate. I've always said since I came to the Senate that we're not putting enough money in higher education. I think we need to put more money in higher education. That's my point of view. But I also accept and agree that college isn't for everyone. So for those who don't go to college, wiser then we want to see those students move on to whatever areas they want to pursue, whether it's some kind of trade, mechanical applications, or. Or whatever labor love they pursue.

Reggie Thomas [00:09:51]:
Get the kind of credentials and certifications they need to be able to live highly productive lives. Because let's be honest, some of those skills that they have, they'll earn more than people who may go into other college educated areas. And that's great. That's great. And we need people in all categories to have a very functional society. So want to measure in that area, in the non college area, an increase in the award of certifications or licenses or whatever, credentials, whatever is the standard for successful achievement in those non college educated groupings.

Liza Holland [00:10:35]:
Absolutely. You know, they say the last statistic I saw was that 72% of jobs do not require a four year degree. And so we're really getting into loving seeing BCTC and the types of work that they're doing because we do need those 72% do need some sort of post high school training or education. So being a little bit more flexible about what success looks like in higher education actually is really good. We also hear a lot from companies that some of the skill sets that they really need for successful employees are not necessarily coming through with our graduates. Right. And so I'm awfully excited to see the portrait of a learner focus from the Department of Education and the Board of Education there. Tell me a little bit about how you think we could measure things like problem solving and creative thinking and effective communication, because that really doesn't lend itself to a standardized test where you fill in, you know, bubble forms.

Reggie Thomas [00:11:44]:
I think we have to realize that we ought to encourage that starting in the early grade. First grade would not be too soon. In other words, give young people, 6, 7, 8 year olds problems, questions that require them to do some thinking as to how to approach it. Now, they won't necessarily give that the same answer that someone in college give them. But you know, I asked a first grader, well, if you were taking a test and you had to use a pencil and the lid broke, how would you take the test? And having worked through that, obviously to come to some conclusion, like I would talk, I would let the teacher know that my pencil broke. I would see if I had another one in my book bag or back. If I did, I would go to the teacher and ask the teacher to give me a pencil so I could complete the exam. I mean, first way you could come to that kind of reasoning, that kind of rationale in answering that question.

Reggie Thomas [00:12:51]:
And that's a critical thinking question. Yeah, so, so my point here, your question for you and your viewers here, is that we need to start teaching. We need to start using and teaching Critical thinking questions throughout the various grades so that it becomes an important part of the learning process from day one.

Liza Holland [00:13:18]:
I got to visit our Rise STEM academy here in Lexington not long ago and interviewed a kindergarten teacher who was using design thinking to allow their students to design a whole roller coaster experiment. And you would not believe the responses that these kids would come up with. I think that sometimes we think that the thinking is not that evolved, but in a way, those young kids, boy, they'll give it a go no matter what, right? They're not afraid of making mistakes the way that kids are when they get older.

Reggie Thomas [00:13:58]:
Liza, you are absolutely right. I applaud that teacher for doing that. And if nothing else, Liza, I want your listeners to understand that no age should be ignored when it comes to utilizing critical thinking skills. 3 year olds, 4 year olds, 5 year olds, they can think critically as well. And we have to as a society stop thinking that they can't think. Okay, I think like that that's something that we have to get out of our mind when it comes to education and realize that at what all of all these children have minds and that their minds can be put to use and break critical, very analytical ways even at a young age to help them start answering questions and thinking through problems.

Liza Holland [00:14:57]:
I'd love to chat a little bit about kind of the role of government in education because obviously the way that things are set up, it is the responsibility of the legislature to kind of set the guideposts for our education system here in Kentucky and all throughout the nation for that matter. But I'm curious about your thoughts. I know in speaking, especially like with new legislators, a lot of times people don't know what they don't know. And what can we as an education community do to better inform legislators about the kind of the changing needs and what's happening in education?

Reggie Thomas [00:15:38]:
Well, let me, let me ask you a question. Two ways, Liz. What can the public do? What can people like you do to help promote education in the form of educators? That question lies is very simple. Use your voice, take the time and energy to speak to your legislators and bring them ideas like I think we ought to try this method or this tool in the field of education. You'll have the beauty about education wise is there are always new ideas. There are always thoughts about what's the best educational tool, approach or method to teach someone. Students today are learning far different than I learned 70 years ago. And that's a good thing because society has changed significantly over the last 70 years.

Reggie Thomas [00:16:35]:
So it's incumbent upon people like you, Liza, and others who think like you and who value education like you do. To always let legislators know in the content of legislators to have their voice heard. I can't never say anything about that. I can never say anything about that. Everyone should use their voice, speak their mind when it comes to getting involved in our government. With that said, I think the other half of your approach, Liza, and since I'm on your show, I don't want to miss this opportunity to say this, is that I firmly believe in public education. I mean, public education has been around in America, Liza, since the turn of the 19th century when you started seeing states like Virginia and Massachusetts create free public schools for children. In other words, rather than having just the wealthy get educated still, those states, the early part of 19th century said we want to create a system where everybody can go to school and have access to public education, access to education.

Reggie Thomas [00:17:41]:
And I think that's one of the greatest things we've done lies in our country over the last 200 years. They have free public school. And I think we ought to keep that, Liza, and really expand upon it. I have to tell you, Liza, public schools have been in jeopardy the Kentucky legislature over the last 10 years, but fortunately, Kentucky keeps making it clear every time there's a threat to public education that they value public education, they want public education. And Eliza, what we need to do, and I'm going to tell you this now, we need to seriously increase our funding public education. We sort of creep along, Liza, in terms of how much we give in the seek formula. And every year you hate hearing you hear people say we gave, we give a record amounts. Well, Liza, that only means we're giving a dollar more or $2 more than what we did this year.

Reggie Thomas [00:18:37]:
So. But we need to increase that substantially. Wise. We're about at least Wiser. If the SIG formula, I think SIG formula now is 4800, it should be increased about 1,500, about $1,000 behind our per pupil funding than where we should. And that would cause an increase rise of probably, probably looking at about a billion more in seek funding than what we're giving now. But that's where we should go. We've got to significantly increase our funding in public education for our students to really get to the levels where we're providing meaningful and highly productive education for our children.

Liza Holland [00:19:19]:
In Kentucky, you know, it's especially in our rural counties where the, you know, in some of the more metropolitan areas, some of the funding is paid for by property taxes. Right. But in a Lot of these rural areas, their property taxes don't even make a dentist. And so they're almost 100% dependent upon our state money to be able to do that. And if our seek funding is not fully funded, which it hasn't been for a very long time, those are the people that suffer. And we have a tremendous rural community here in the state of Kentucky. So I'm really glad you brought that up.

Reggie Thomas [00:19:58]:
Well, let me be clear. I'm not, as you well know, they legend you as they sue by students. I love it by students. In terms of the formula not being constitutional and the Rose decision not being followed, I'm not going to speak to that policy because again, I'm a member of legislature. So to some degree, I'm a party in that lawsuit. But obviously we want to seek formula one. We want to make sure that it treats all students fairly, regardless of whether you live in Anchorage, Kentucky, or whether you live in some of the more rural and impoverished areas in Kentucky where all children have the same quality of education.

Liza Holland [00:20:42]:
Absolutely. That's an ongoing challenge and it makes it very tough for me to realize that legislature just approved tax cuts instead of investing in education. But I'm an issue voter, so there we are. What other challenges do you face as far as kind of. I know that you said that public education has kind of been at risk for a while in the legislature. What are some things that you are hearing that concern you that maybe our citizens should advocate for or against, for that matter?

Reggie Thomas [00:21:22]:
Well, first, let me say this, Liza, on a positive note. I can be positive.

Liza Holland [00:21:27]:
So I like the positives. Yay.

Reggie Thomas [00:21:29]:
Okay. Well, I think it's important to be positive. I think the best legislation that we passed in the 2025 session dealt with education, and that was taking cell phones away from students. In other words, collecting cell phones, putting them in a safe place so that students would be able to have to encourage, really force students have full interaction with each other, whether the teachers in the classroom focus better on what's being taught and not having the cell phones to distract them from what they need to learn each and every day. So I think that is a big step that we took a very positive step to say we're going to reinforce learning through direct contact with students and teachers and not have your cell phone served as a way of directing you away from the classroom learning. So I think that's the best thing we did. As to your question as to what we can do more other than money. Other than money, and I think this is a positive step is Give teachers, Liza, more opportunity to teach.

Reggie Thomas [00:22:44]:
We passed legislation this session that said we're going to eliminate the red tape. We're going to eliminate some of the bureaucracy in terms of reporting and paperwork that teachers have to do. And I think that's a good thing.

Liza Holland [00:22:58]:
That's a great thing.

Reggie Thomas [00:22:59]:
I've been advocating that for years. And so we did that in the 2025 session. So I would say, Liza, that in many respects, public education took some steps forward in 2025 from a state legislative point of view. Now the budget's coming up in 2026, and obviously I'm going to be focused on are we going to make significant strides in the CEQ formula in 2025? In 2026. Excuse me.

Liza Holland [00:23:31]:
Tell me a little bit about your thoughts. With all the chaos going on the federal level for, you know, we keep getting these reports that Kentucky is going to lose $4 billion in funding towards education. I don't know how much of it is scare tactic, how much of it is real, but how is the state legislature handling that?

Reggie Thomas [00:23:52]:
Well, I'm gonna begin by saying I'm a big fan of Commissioner Fletcher. I think he's a great hire by the state, and he has told the people of Kentucky, had told Washington that he's going to apply his efforts to make sure that all children get treated fairly, no matter where they live, and that if he gets directives about what can and cannot be done, he will try to follow the people trying to follow those guidelines. But at the end of the day, he's going to ensure that no child suffers, regardless of what happens. Liza, we want to keep. I want to keep this discussion upbeat. I'm not going to get in a political. Get very political in terms of what I think about the prison administration. I will say this, Liza, because your viewers need, your listeners and viewers need to know this.

Reggie Thomas [00:24:50]:
If the cuts come, as I believe they will come from the administration, the current administration, then wisely you're going to see two significant major impacts. First of all, children with disabilities, children with IEP plans, children with 504 plans, will not receive the funding they need to be able to remain competitive and productive in the class. Students with disabilities are really going to be put on the back burner in terms of not really getting what they need to be well educated. That's going to be very harmful to us aside to not provide for disabled children who now come to public school. The second thing, Liza, that you're going to see is that you're going to see a cutback in terms of the nutrition and the amount of food that children receive, not just during school, but after school. We need to understand this part. I'm going to look at you very directly when I say this. A huge percentage of children in Kentucky get fed through the school system.

Reggie Thomas [00:26:11]:
Not just lunch, not talking about just school lunch, but breakfast and sometimes food taken home at the end of the day on weekends. And there are going to be those cuts in our agricultural, in our agricultural budget and in monies that we receive through Department of Education that go to nutrition. And that's going to have a very serious impact, negative impact on learning. Because if you're hungry, if you're sick, then you're not going to be able to learn. No, not going to be able to learn.

Liza Holland [00:26:49]:
You have to meet those basic needs first before you can ever even hope to be open to learning. Absolutely.

Reggie Thomas [00:26:55]:
So I worry about these potential results, but believe the administration when they say they're going to gut the Department of Education, that they're going to eliminate a lot of federal spending to public schools, that they want to control what's being taught in public schools. I think you have to take the administration that they were at their word. They say that these things are going to happen.

Liza Holland [00:27:25]:
Sobering thought so. Bringing it back here to Kentucky where I do think that for the most part we are good supporters of public education. Obviously, as everybody came out and roundly defeated the all one to twin counties. I know every single one. For those of you who are not in Kentucky, we had a, an option to change our constitution to allow for public funds to go to private schools and it was soundly defeated. So it's exciting to me that the energy is there and that sort of a thing. But we still do face challenges. What do you view as the biggest challenges to education in Kentucky right now.

Reggie Thomas [00:28:09]:
Liza? I think I said it before. It is funding. Well, let me say this, Liza, because I haven't talked about this yet and I don't want to end your program without mentioning this point. The next level of advancement in Kentucky education, Liza, has to be the creation of pre K, the full funding of universal pre K across this state. Liza, as you well know, because you live this every day, half the states now have monies and a system that brings 4 year olds into the classroom after state. Now 25 states do that, including the white. If you include Washington D.C. then you got 26 of the 51 jurisdictions here.

Reggie Thomas [00:28:58]:
Kentucky is not in Athens. And Liza, we have the money in the budget to do that for your listeners and viewers. It will cost us about $240 million to offer Universal pre K in this state. About a quarter of a billion dollars. We're sitting on a 5.5 rainy day fund. $250 million. Lies is only about 5% of that budget. That's a nickel out of the dollar.

Reggie Thomas [00:29:30]:
Okay. Really a small amount, but the legislature has not seen fit yet to do that. And we have a governor who's been advocating that from day one of his tenure here as governor. And so that should be the. That's your question. That should be the next big step in advancing public education here in Kentucky. That universal pre kiji.

Liza Holland [00:29:56]:
Is transportation included in that $240 million figure?

Reggie Thomas [00:30:01]:
No. No. I mean, obviously if you start bringing four year olds to school, then yes, you would need transportation for them, so there would be some additional transportation costs. But no, I'm just talking about teachers.

Liza Holland [00:30:14]:
Yeah, yeah. I'm just curious. The classrooms, because I know I got to work with the Pritchard committee in this early childhood space. And even though we had funding for it, we didn't get full enrollment in, even in kindergarten in some areas just because people. It was like half day and people couldn't get their kids to and from school, so they just opted to not enroll them. So I was just curious whether that transportation. I mean, to me, that transportation question, especially in rural areas, is a pretty significant one.

Reggie Thomas [00:30:51]:
Well, you had to have transportation there. Yes, because we want children. We want children to come. It'll be universal. It'll be mandated. And so we want them to come.

Liza Holland [00:31:00]:
Love it. Love it. So much learning happens in those first five years. It's just, it's incredible. The research is so, so strong. So I'm really glad to hear, like.

Reggie Thomas [00:31:09]:
You know that, Liza. I've written about it for years.

Liza Holland [00:31:13]:
Absolutely. Oh, this has been such a great conversation. But I guess we are coming running up on time here. Tell me, last question is what would you like for decision makers to know? And you can define decision makers, however you would like to do so.

Reggie Thomas [00:31:30]:
Well, can I include you as a decision maker, Liza?

Liza Holland [00:31:33]:
Absolutely.

Reggie Thomas [00:31:34]:
Okay, well, let me tell you what I would like you to do. I think this podcast is great. I would like you, Liza, to take this podcast on the road. You'll have more public podcasts like in McCracken county or in Warren county, or in Hardin County, Liza. Or in Boone county or in Laurel county or in Boyd county or in Letcher County. That's what I would like for you to do. Again, you gotten a mandate from the 2024 elections that saying we want to value our public school. I think you should go on the road and encourage people like, think like minded people like you, Laura, Eliza, to do the same and create a drumbeat to say that we need to do more with our public schools and we need to make sure that they get the funding that they need, these children get the quality of teaching that they need.

Reggie Thomas [00:32:37]:
Because, and I'll close with this, PK is important, very important. It's critical now, necessary. But also teacher pays them, got to pay them. We only have one county or in the state today, one school district that's that pays his teachers $50,000 or more a year starting salary and that's county and we, and we need to make sure we pay all our teachers at least a starting $750,000.

Liza Holland [00:33:07]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And that is a great way to conclude this. And I will say I'm real excited. I'm doing some partnership work with Junior Achievement to the Bluegrass, which means I'm going to be getting out to a bunch of the various counties, particularly in Eastern Kentucky anyway. And I will take your advice and see if we can't get a bunch of those folks up and on this podcast.

Reggie Thomas [00:33:35]:
That's what I would like. Liz.

Liza Holland [00:33:37]:
Fantastic. Well, Senator Reggie Thomas, thank you so very much for being with us today on Education Perspectives. So appreciate all of your thoughts and wise words.

Reggie Thomas [00:33:48]:
Well, Liza, I enjoy your company and I look forward to seeing you again throughout this year.

Liza Holland [00:33:54]:
Thank you so very much.

Brian Creasman [00:33:57]:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Education Perspectives. Feel free to share your thoughts on our Facebook page. Let us know which Education perspectives you would like to hear or share. Please subscribe and share with your friends.