S5 E1 Creating Opportunity for Every Child: Dr. Liggins on Equity and Innovative School Programs

PODCAST Season 5 EPISODE 1

Dr. Demetrus Liggins

Fayette County Public Schools

Superintendent

Quote of the Podcast: 

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit" -Aristotle

Introduction of Guest BIO – 

Today’s guest is Dr. Demetrus Liggins, superintendent of Fayette County Public Schools since 2021. A former English and ESL teacher, Dr. Liggins has served in nearly every role in education—from classroom teacher to high school principal to area superintendent—across California and Texas. Before coming to Lexington, he led Greenville ISD near Dallas, where he transformed a struggling district into one with significantly improved academic and financial ratings, earning state recognition.

Bilingual and deeply committed to equity, Dr. Liggins launched innovative programs like a citywide literacy initiative, a dual-language track, a STEM academy, and an Early College High School. His leadership has earned him national accolades, including being named a Superintendent to Watch and Kentucky’s 2026 Superintendent of the Year. With advanced degrees in education and policy and a passion for student success, Dr. Liggins is widely respected for his results-driven leadership and deep investment in mentoring the next generation of educators.

Interview

Agents of Change: Leaders/Innovators.

• 30,000 Ft. View – Why so we, as a society invest in education?
• What drew you to education?
• What do you love about what you do?
• Portrait of a Graduate and Deeper Learning
• Local Accountability
• What are the biggest challenges to you?
• What would you like decision makers to know?”

Podcast/ website/ book shoutouts

https://www.fcps.net/about/superintendent-s-office/strategic-plan/portrait-of-a-graduate

Transcript

Liza Holland [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Education Perspectives. I am your host, Liza Holland. This is a podcast that explores the role of education in our society from a variety of lenses. Education needs to evolve, to meet the needs of today and the future. Solving such huge issues requires understanding. Join me as we begin to explore the many perspectives of education. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to season three five of Education Perspectives. We are delighted to be starting another school year and Today's guest is Dr.

Liza Holland [00:00:39]:
Demetrius Liggins, Superintendent of Fayette County Public Schools since 2021. A former English and ESL teacher, Dr. Liggins has served in nearly every role in education, from a classroom teacher to high school principal to area superintendent across California and Texas. Before coming to Lexington, he led Greenville ISD near Dallas, where he transformed a struggling district into one with significantly improved academic and financial ratings, earning state recognition, bilingual and deeply committed to equity, Dr. Liggins launched innovative programs like a citywide literacy initiative, a dual language track, a STEM academy, and an early college high school. His leadership has earned him national accolades, including being named a Superintendent to Watch and Kentucky's 2026 Superintendent of the Year. With advanced degrees in education and policy and a passion for student success, Dr. Liggins is widely respected for his results driven leadership and deep investment in mentoring the next generation of educators.

Liza Holland [00:01:57]:
Dr. Liggins, welcome to Education Perspectives. We're so excited to have you.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:02:01]:
Thank you. I'm excited to be here. It's taken us a while to get here, but here we are.

Liza Holland [00:02:07]:
I knew it would eventually happen. I knew it would. So, gearing up for a new school year. That's really exciting. Glad that you're able to be here and tell us a little bit about your thoughts. I want to kick you off with our question that I ask everybody is from a 30,000 foot view, why do you think that we as a society need to be investing in education?

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:02:29]:
That's a great question. And an investment in education is really an investment in our future. You know, I strongly believe that public schools are the heart of every community that connects the strands that run through every family, every neighborhood, every organization, house of worship, workplace, industry, any community center, library branch, ymca, parks. No matter where you where I go, even currently here in Lexington, I encounter children who attended our schools, adults who graduated from our schools, families with children in our schools, and people with basically connections to our schools. Throughout their work, their service organizations are they have relatives or they have friends. I've long believed that a public education school system is the key to a healthy, thriving community. And as our school system goes, in most cases, so does that community. And for most students, education is their absolute best chance that they have, changing the trajectory of their lives.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:03:30]:
But in some of our students, it's the only chance that they have. And I keep that in mind every single day. It provides a lifelong our lifeline, if you will, for the port our kids provide them with some opportunities, a path to a brighter future that many of them can't even imagine on their own. And so it's something that we're responsible for as educators to provide. And I can say with absolute confidence, because I'm one of them, that if it weren't for education that I received and support from adults that I encountered while I was in school, I certainly would not be the superintendent of the second largest school system in Kentucky right now. A little bit about me. I was the second child born to an unwed teenage mother. We lived with my grandmother who worked as a hospital housekeeper.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:04:17]:
She was widowed. And while my mom later in life became a bus driver and a custodian for the school system. And although I was an excellent student and made excellent grades, no one in my family had ever gone to school and, or gone to college. And the only thing I knew was, was that college was expensive and we couldn't afford to go. And so if not for a counselor that I happened to have encountered my spring semester of my senior year, that really took an interest in me and helped me get to a point to where I was able to get a full ride scholarship to Fresno State in California, I wouldn't be where I am today. You know, that's the power of education. The people, it's the. And so schools aren't just places where kids go or have to go by law.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:05:03]:
It's a place where they can discover their unique gifts and their talents and they can identify the next steps they can dream. That it really gave me an opportunity to dream a public education system and gain experiences and competencies that I wouldn't have had unless I had the experience of a public education. I also think education fuels our economy. It develops future entrepreneurs, business leaders and ventures. It's something that really that we focus on through our career and technical education systems. But also those soft skills, if you will, which are really necessary skills, those things come by just interacting with others, a variety of people that you normally wouldn't interact with. It's our job as educators to create the next generation of voters, of leaders of citizens, and really help them to learn to think critically and respect the differences of other people and perspectives, perspectives of folks around the world. That may not necessarily look like them or speak the language they speak, but understand that those two are people that we have to work with and we have to learn to get along with.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:06:13]:
And in many instances we have to learn to collaborate with in order for the success of all of us. I think when our schools thrive, our communities become more connected, resilient and ultimately more vibrant. I'm reminded, actually I would end with this. There's a comedian, Gilder Ratner I think is her name. And she once stated that having children was the ultimate act of optimism. And I tend to agree with that. But I would also, I'd go a step further. I'd say that investing in education is the ultimate act of patriotism because it really helps secure a better future for every family, every corner of our society.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:06:53]:
And it's an investment in ourselves really as a society. So that's my 30,000 foot view, if you will.

Liza Holland [00:07:01]:
Good answer. And boy, you have quite lived the American dream in many instances. Coming from that kind of background, I may already know the answer based upon that. But tell me, what made you choose education as your pathway? You've done a little bit of everything in education. Chief cook and bottle washer.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:07:19]:
Yeah, yeah. I started out as classroom teacher and went into campus administration and then central administration and then the superintendency. But my grandmother, who I mentioned earlier, I grew up with one of her prized possessions were a set of encyclopedias. And we couldn't afford much at all, but she had bought a prize set of. And they were. Had a place of honor at the end of the hallway on the bookshelf. And grandma, like most grandmas are, she's quite lenient with grandkids and what we could do and. But not with her encyclopedias.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:07:52]:
They were serious visitors and, and it was something we didn't play with. And I just remember them filled with such beautiful photographs and, and knowledge. And the encyclopedias were. And she used to get upset when I would say this to her, but they were almost as sacred as her Bible. That one of my first memories was actually her reading. There's a children's Bible she had that she would sit with the grandkids and she'd read. We'd all gather around her and they had pictures. But I remember sitting on the chair, leaning into the pictures and really hanging on to every word.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:08:24]:
Even from a young age, I just possessed an insatiable curiosity and constantly wanted to understand more about the world around me and found immense joy in discovering new concepts, learning new things, acquiring new knowledge. And I remember My grandma's living room had pictures. When you'd walk in, there are pictures. She had six kids, and they all had graduated from high school from the same high school, Longview, Texas, Longview Lobos. And she had every single one of the pictures up there as a focal point in her room. And it was just something that she just instilled in her to that education could change your trajectory, it could change your life, it could change your circumstances. Now, she only had a 9th grade education, but she was still, to this day, the smartest woman I know. And I could just imagine if she had not been a black woman born into poverty herself, what she could have accomplished if had been given more opportunities.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:09:25]:
I give all the credit to why I became an educator to her. I knew from an early age that education was important and it was something. And so main goal in life was to make her proud. And going in education I knew would be do nothing better than that to make her proud. So that's ultimately how I got into it and why I chose this path.

Liza Holland [00:09:48]:
Yet another great answer. And what an inspiration to all of our grandparents and parents and whatnot out there. That type of an attitude can really make a difference in your children and your grandchildren and your great grandchildren's lives. So great inspiration. That's phenomenal. So moving from the student side to the actual educator side, do you have a favorite memory of when you were in the classroom?

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:10:14]:
Ooh, I would say not one particular memory. I have a situation that occurred. I had a student when I started my career in California, where I graduated college and taught there for a couple of years, and then moved back home to Texas, where I went from teaching high school to teaching elementary. In Texas, they have bilingual education so children can learn in their native language all the way up until fifth grade. And I had become bilingual in Spanish. While in college, I studied abroad in Costa Rica. And so when I moved back to Texas, I ended up teaching elementary bilingual education, which was mostly a Spanish class. And I had this one particular student, Jaquelan.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:10:59]:
What's his first name? I won't share his last name. And most of my students, they were from Mexico and Central America. Their families were, and their home language was Spanish. Galen, as you can probably imagine, does not sound like a Spanish name because he was not Hispanic or spoke Spanish. But I was the only black male teacher on campus. And Jaquellon was a student that really needed a male role model. He had been gone from classroom to classroom trying to find the right fit and just didn't, couldn't find his fit. So Jaquaylon ended up in my class with 20 students, 20 Spanish speaking students and Jaquelan.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:11:41]:
And I will tell you, Jaquellon was quite the challenge. Not just because first of all he's sitting in a classroom where most of the instruction is done in Spanish. And I did all I could to try to, because the ideal was to get all of the kids to transition ultimately to English. And so it was a bilingual classroom, if you will. But I took great pride in taking Jaquellon to the side, working with him and giving him some individual attention and also just by being a role model in general. And Jaqualin ended up finishing the school year doing quite well, although I think I aged about 10 years in that one school year. But many years later, Jaqualin, I had lost his mom, was a huge fan of mine, but we had lost content. And Jaqualin found me on social media and invited me to his wedding.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:12:35]:
And Jaqualin had done. He's become an entrepreneur in his own right. He had done well for himself and he still remembered my third grade class. And really during, even during a toast at the wedding, he gave a toast to me and said that I changed the trajectory of his life. And that to me is not one particular moment, but it's a series, if you will, of one particular child where I think that's what it's all about. Making a difference in one child's life at a time. And so that's one of my most fondest memories, I'd say.

Liza Holland [00:13:09]:
Oh, that's a marvelous story. I'm so glad you shared that. Thank you. And that's so very true. And you too can be that teacher. That's marvelous. So now you're in the superintendent's position. Congratulations on being named superintendent of the year.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:13:24]:
Absolutely. It's a testament to the work we're doing here in Fayette County. It's just not about me. And I try to say that as much as I possibly can, it's about the work that we do all the way from the boardroom to the classroom to try to make a difference in kids lives. And so it's truly an honor that I share with every teacher, para educator, cafeteria worker, bus driver, staff member, family here in Fayette county because it really shows that the work we're doing is paying off and people are noticing. I just happen to be the leader of that work. But it's quite an honor and I'm quite pleased. So thank you.

Liza Holland [00:14:01]:
Absolutely. And you look at the statistics and with not having schools in the lowest category for the first time in years and years. There's so much progress. Sometimes I think it feels like we have a never ending battle, but sometimes it's good to sit back and do the celebrations of where we have made really good progress.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:14:22]:
Absolutely.

Liza Holland [00:14:23]:
So I would love to. We were chatting a little bit before the interview about about the changes that we're looking at making in education to better meet what the needs of today are. We were talking about how our kindergartners were teaching them content that might would be obsolete by the time they graduate. So tell me a little bit about you've invested a lot of good time in initiatives, the Portrait of a Graduate. And I'd love to have your take on why do you think that's important and how do you see that playing out in Fayette county schools?

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:14:56]:
Our portrait of a graduate was something that was developed with input from our entire community, with literally tens of thousands of individuals, whether they were families, whether they were our business community, whether they were civic organizations or just community members that are taxpayers that didn't necessarily have any students currently in school. But it was an opportunity for them to say what would you like to see the children that graduate from county public schools to be once they are gone through our school system? And it was something that we took seriously and it was something that we embraced at the end of the day and we came up with from all of the feedback that we received, whether that was through community forums or that was through surveys or that was through one on one conversations, however, and synthesized that data and ultimately came to a point to where these things are, what is serious to our community. And the same thing occurred when it came to our strategic plan and our mission and vision for Fayette County Public Schools. And our mission talks about creating a world class education for every single student. That's our vision. I'm sorry. And our mission talks about preparing our students for a global society. And we really pride ourselves, and we're very proud of the fact that Fayette County Public Schools, which is the one of the most diverse school systems in the state of Kentucky, with some of the one of four very limited urban centers in the state of Kentucky, yet we still continue to outperform the state at elementary, middle and high school.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:16:36]:
If you were to take our ACT scores, we make up 6.5% of the Commonwealth of Kentucky as far as our student population, but we have over 32% of the highest performers in the state. And that is not by happenstance. It is truly based on a intention to follow the expectations that our community has shared with us. Our community doesn't want our students to graduate to be average or they want our students to be able to be competitive on a global scale. And that requires us to do things differently. That requires our teachers to be better trained. It requires our administrators to have more knowledge and to be more innovative and to do things differently than a traditional school system. And with that, that requires us to learn differently.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:17:30]:
It requires us to go places, to learn best practices from others who are doing it well. And it requires us to be very intentional about the things that we're putting in front of kids and the expectations we're placing on them. And so I make no apologies that I insist that everyone gets better. We are a continuous improvement model. That means that we have to be better today than we were yesterday, even if it's by just a small smidget. Because as you continue on that trajectory, not only are we getting better as educators, we're preparing our students to be better each and every day. And as you can imagine, the accumulation of that knowledge and that training and learning really makes a huge difference. And we're seeing it in the data.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:18:16]:
And so there's no. You mentioned earlier that we have zero schools that are in school improvement. There's no coincidence that's occurring after we've been very intentional about investing in our own learning. And I often will tell my staff that it is just as important for a custodian, a cafeteria worker, a teacher or superintendent to learn as to grow as any other position. Not only do you have a responsibility to continue to grow, you have a right to grow. And I couldn't say enough about the importance of our people having opportunities to grow, having opportunities to learn from experts around the nation and in some cases the globe. And we're really excited about the outcomes for kids that is a result of that.

Liza Holland [00:19:09]:
You know, I'm really glad that you brought that up because in it's amazing to me what winds up in the media and is a focus and that sort of thing. And I'm not sure that people really think about how important it is for our educators to be continually learning, to be out there, making sure that we know what's happening. For yourself, to be out at conferences worldwide to know what the expectations are, how things are changing so that you can bring that back to our district, to infuse that learning here in Lexington so that our kids can be world class. Yes, Professional development is one area that I think it's so important for us to invest in, especially because realistically, we are starting to change how teachers need to teach. We need to inspire these lifelong learners. And the only way we can do that is to give students more agency. And that means the teacher needs to take more of a coach role. Right.

Liza Holland [00:20:11]:
And so I really wish that everybody in conversation would talk about how important it is for us all to be.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:20:18]:
Lifelong learners, leading by example and making sure that we can't expect our students to get better if we're not getting better. And so I. It's again, it is critical for us to be able to do that. And Fayette county is in. Is unique in Kentucky. There's plenty of things we learn in Kentucky, plenty of webinars we take advantage of, but there's not any place in Kentucky that looks like Fayette County. It's very unique. And so we found we are members of the Council of Great City Schools which have some excellent professional learning opportunities that we take full advantage of that really works with school systems across the nation that are urban centers and have the challenges that exist in Fayette County.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:21:04]:
And we continue to work through all of those in different organizations that provide other professional learning experiences so that we can get the best and bring it back to our students. And many of those are train the trainer models. And so people will go someplace and come back and train the rest of us and to really ensure that we're spreading the wealth, if you will.

Liza Holland [00:21:24]:
Absolutely. So we have talked about a lot of the great and amazing things that are happening, but the world of education is a bit of a challenge right now. Tell me about what you view as our biggest challenges at this point.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:21:40]:
In every school system where I've had the privilege of working, I've always believed that most pressing need is to increase student outcomes as a district again, our mission is to ensure that all of our students achieve at high levels and graduate to excel in a global society. So my primary concern is always and will always be student learning. And I want to be clear, Lisa. When I talk about student outcomes, I'm not talking about a test score or report card grade. In Fayette county, we pride ourselves in providing a world class education to very intentionally designed to address the needs of the whole child from preschool all the way through high school. And that means challenging core curricular classes that support cutting edge instructional materials are included one on one. Technology is something that we've done. We have a robust fine arts programs, we have PE in every single school.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:22:33]:
And so we offer a full complement of academic and co curricular activities and classes that really offers our students avenues to discover and cultivate their gifts. And we're excited that it's something that we encourage creativity. We encourage imagination and intellectual curiosity. But in addition to traditional classroom and neighborhood schools, Here in Fayette county, we also have developed 34 unique, innovative programs. It's a mix of magnet programs to gifted and talented programs, Special programs for students that are gender specific. And this is offered kindergarten through 12th grade. And it's really designed to meet the diverse learning needs of our students. The challenges educational programs provide, the challenges that they help us overcome Is the fact that every child is unique.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:23:25]:
And one of the things that we want to make sure that we're doing, Providing a variety of academic, social, emotional, and behavioral needs. And those offerings really help us do what's best for what's needed for the individual child. We tell our families that our neighborhood schools are great options. We have phenomenal neighborhood schools that offer a variety of experiences to our kids, Learned experiences, and prepare them very well. But you also have options to go to other programs that may be very unique for your child. Anyone that has more than one kid realizes that not one of them are the same. And I know I've speaking with the family a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking about they really wanted something unique for their one kid. They had four kids, and they were really looking for something for this child who was very artistic and very much always singing and dancing and drawing and just really.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:24:29]:
And they're like, we don't have it. We don't know where you got it from. The parents were saying, certainly didn't get it from us. We have no creativity at all. But they were saying, we're looking for something to where our kid can thrive in that environment. And so we talked about some of the options that they had, and it was something that was very pleasing to them. And they were saying, our other kids are doing great and thriving and being very successful in our traditional neighborhood school, but we're going to try to take our other kid to this school here. And so the challenge, I believe, is in education, we need to create an environment where it's not a one size fits all.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:25:06]:
We're fortunate here in fayette county that we have a large school system and we can offer different things. But I've been in the smaller school systems to where we were able to really, from classroom to classroom and from grade level to grade level, offer things that are unique for children, Whether that be through clubs, Whether that be through focused instructional activities. And so I think one of the things that we certainly need to the challenge that we have currently in education is making sure that we're preparing students not only for a future that doesn't yet exist, but we're doing it in a way that's engaging to them. We're doing it in a way that they are. They're excited to learn and they're excited to grow, and they are having an opportunity every single day to do something that they love. One of the things that we've gone wrong previously, and I did this as a principal, so it's certainly no criticism. We learn and we grow. When we had kids, if you struggle in math, we gave you double math so that you could really get more math.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:26:09]:
Or if you struggled in reading, we gave you double reading. And to get that double, we took out something of your schedule that you may have loved, you may have chosen that. I want to be an a PE Take. I won't use PE as an example. I want to take a music class, but in lieu of music, because you struggle in math, we're going to put you in more math. And kids went every single day doing. Doubling down on something that they struggled in and never had an opportunity to thrive at one point during the day. And then we wonder why kids get burned out.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:26:41]:
We wonder why our graduation rate isn't growing as much as it could be. And it's because we. I think every kid deserves something every single day that they can say, I'm good at this and I enjoy this. And obviously we do have to take care of those students that are struggling in core academics. That's important. But we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, if you will, and just take away any of the fun and the things that really connect our kids to their schools. There's very few kids that get really excited about algebra and say, I can't wait to get to algebra class. There are some kids like that, don't get me wrong, I certainly was not one.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:27:22]:
But. But to get kids to school for algebra, maybe it's that theater class that they get to take right after the algebra class that they know I'm excited about going. So I know I have to do well in algebra. So I'm going to put in a little bit more. More effort so that I can ensure that I can be in the play this, this season. And so I think the challenge is multifaceted, if you will. I think the federal requirements for testing, I think we over test our kids. I think we don't provide enough opportunity for our kids to have experiences where they thrive every single day.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:27:53]:
And do something they enjoy. And I also think I'll just the technological society we're in right now and the advancement and how quickly it's going again. We are teaching kids things that will for jobs that, no, that doesn't exist yet, we're teaching them for experiences that we can't fathom or even imagine will happen. And it's important for us to also teach those skills that are necessary, that are transferable from whatever job you may end up doing. These are skills that we know as human beings are important because we know we're going to have to work together and we're going to have to work across the aisle.

Liza Holland [00:28:31]:
Tell me about what would you wish that decision makers could know about education and you can define that however you want to. It could be legislators, could be voters, could be whoever.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:28:44]:
And if you would, thank you for allowing me the flexibility. I would really like to reframe that question and say, because I've had the fortune of really sharing my thoughts directly with many decision makers and I will say I've enjoy candid conversations every level of the government. But instead I would like for everyone to know that our goal really for our children are more alike than they are different. I believe when we set the red echo aside and we find common ground to build solutions on that foundation, public schools are really places where people of all walks of life with the myriad of lived experiences come together. And it's been my experience that regardless of race, background, political party, religion, their socioeconomic status, their occupation, their language, their immigrant status, everyone wants what's best for the children that they love. And that doesn't mean that we won't have disagreements. But when we keep different and difficult conversations centered on the values that we all share, it's easier to find consensus. And I believe that from external forces trying to divide and to distract us from what really matters, we need to focus more on instead of statistics and quoting statistics and all of that, we need to realize that 100% of our students are our students.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:30:09]:
Regardless of where they come from, regardless of how they got here, regardless of the language they speak, regardless of their rich or poor or somewhere in between, they're all capable and they're all deserving of success. And if we use that as a foundation, I feel that everyone can agree that, okay, now what do we do moving forward? Now that we all can agree this is a true statement for everyone in the room and everyone involved.

Liza Holland [00:30:39]:
Nice. That is a great answer. Thank you so very much.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:30:42]:
Thank you.

Liza Holland [00:30:43]:
And I really appreciate you taking the time I know lots going on right now in your world, but I wish you a fabulous kickoff to the fall semester. And thanks so much for being a part of Education Perspectives.

Dr. Demetrius Liggins [00:30:56]:
Thank you so much. I enjoyed it. You made it very easy.

Liza Holland [00:31:00]:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Education Perspectives. Feel free to share your thoughts on our Facebook page. Let us know which education perspectives you would like to hear or share. Please subscribe and share with your friends.